I like the way you think on this, Matt, and hope you are right. Really want to see both in C&B next season!
Posted 1 June 2022, 7:53 a.m.
Matt, re: the NABC National Championship trophy. IIRC it is awarded to the #1 team in the final Coaches Poll.
Did the NABC award KU the trophy in 2020?
Posted 17 April 2022, 8:16 a.m.
Appreciate the info and the comments, Matt! Thank you!
Posted 12 April 2022, 11 p.m.
first an admin q: Is anyone else not getting any response at all when trying to REPLY to a commenter?That is, is it a "my computer" problem or a "site" problem? I've tried clicking REPLY on three different devices (Windows and Apple) and get no response when I do.
Lee Short, I'm sure someone in the Sports Information office could find out about Regional MOP honors that were awarded to KU players.
Remember that Jerseys in the Rafters is a relatively new thing, started when Roy was here. The first group went up just before the 1992-93 season (Clyde Lovellette, Danny Manning, B.H. Born, Charlie T. Black, Paul Endacott, Wilt Chamberlain and Charlie B. Black). Charlie T. Black had died 4 years earlier in 1988, making him the first posthumous honoree. As you may recall Chamberlain's jersey was not officially retired and raised to the rafters until they could work out getting him back to KU (a prospect he somewhat dreaded, as he felt he had let KU and its fans down in the 1957 NCAA title game) to retire it on January 17, 1998.
My impression (someone with knowledge -- not opinion, please, but knowledge -- please correct me if I am off target here) is that they included the Final Four MOP because that person usually would be the key player in bringing an NC to KU. B.H. Born in 1953 and Wilt in 1957 were obvious exceptions. And frankly, if not for his ncaat ff mop, i'm not sure Born would be up there. He was excellent his junior and senior years, averaging 19 points and over 10 rebounds a game (he was a sophomore when Clyde was a senior, so saw little playing time as a soph, although he was in 26 games that year). But the only honors he ever received were for that 1953 NCAAT his junior year (All Tournament, All Region and FF MOP). No AA, no National or Conference POY, nothing else to serve as a discriminator. But he was the guy for that NCAAT, and KU wanted to honor him, so I think ncaat ff mop became one of the "guaranteed" criteria because of him. I am speculating, I could be wrong.
I will be surprised -- and a bit unhappy -- if DAVE ends up not being up there because of what amounts to bureaucratic incompetence re: the MOP voting.
Posted 12 April 2022, 7:02 p.m.
Posting an error correction as I can no longer edit my original comment above --
I made a typo in my first post in regards to"B.H. Born, kansas 1952"
Born was ncaat mop in 1953, when Phog lost for a second time to Branch McCracken's Indiana Hoosiers.(First time was in 1940).
1952 was of course, the year Phog and Clyde Lovellette won it all for KU's first NCAAT title.
Posted 12 April 2022, 6:23 p.m.
Bryce Landon, Reply issue so I answer you here. This is copy & paste, no idea what the formatting will look like. To see it properly go to http://www.rockchalk.com/index.php/fo...
Note well: players honored who did not meet the established criteria are cited as Honored based on their Kansas Career (KC). As more criteria were included, existing honorees who met the new criteria have had that basis added to their Honors justification.# player pos years honored based on0 Drew Gooden f 2000–02 2002 nabc npoy; Consensus 1st team AA4 Nick Collison f 2000–03 2003 nabc npoy; Consensus 1st team AA; Big 12 POY Sherron Collins^ G 2006–10 2010 Consensus 1st team AA; Big 12 POY5 Fred Pralle G 1936–38 1938 Consensus 1st team AA Howard Engleman F 1939–41 1941 Consensus 1st team AA7 Tusten Ackerman† C 1923–25 1924, 1925 Helms Foundation AA (1)8 Charlie T. Black*† G 1922–24 1924 Helms Foundation NPOY; 1924,1925 Helms AA (1)10 Charles B. Black F 1942–43, 46–47 1943 & 1946 Consensus 1st team AA (AA 1942/43/46/47) Kirk Hinrich G 2000–03 KC (2002,03 3rdTmaa tsn, usbwa; 2003 3rdTmAA AP)11 Jacque Vaughn G 1994–97 1996 Big 8 POY; initially 1997 GTE Academic AAotYear12 Paul Endacott*† G 1921–23 1923 Helms NPOY; 1922, 1923 Helms AA (1)13 Wilt Chamberlain c 1957–58 1957 ff mop; 1957, 1958 Consensus 1st team AA Walt Wesley C 1964-66 KC (1966 Consensus 2nd Tm AA)14 Darnell Valentine G 1978–81 KC (1981 AP 2nd Tm AA)15 Ray Evans G 1942–43, 46–47 1942,1943 Helms 1st TM AA(2) Jo Jo White G 1966–69 KC (1968, 69 Consensus 2nd Tm AA) Bud Stallworth F 1970–72 KC; Big8 POY 1972 (1968,69 Cons. 2ndTmAA) Mario Chalmers^ g 2006–08 2008 ff mop16 Clyde Lovellette‡ c 1950–52 1952 ff mop, Helms POY; 1951,52 Cons.1st Tm AA (3)22 Marcus Morris F 2008–11 2011 Big 12 POY23 B.H. Born‡ c 1952–54 1952 ff mop Wayne Simien F 2002–05 2005 Consensus 1st Tm AA, Big 12 POY25 Danny Manning# f 1985–88 1988 npoy/ffmop;1987,88 ConS.1stTmAA;3xB8POY/Decade Brandon Rush^ F 2005–08 KC (2008 3rdTmnabc aa & Big12T MVP; 3x1stTm All B12)26 Gale Gordon G 1925–27 1926 Helms Foundation AA(1)32 Bill Bridges F 1959–61 KC (3x all Big 8; 1961 AP Honorable Mention AA)34 Paul Pierce F 1995–98 1998 Consensus 1st Tm AA; 1997, 98 - Big12T MVP 36 Al Peterson C 1925–27 1926 Helms Consensus AA(1); 3x 1st Tm All MVC40 Dave Robisch f 1969–71 kc; 1970,71 b8poy (1971 2ndTmAPAA; 3rdTmaa nabc,upi)45 Raef LaFrentz F 1994–98 1997,98 Consensus 1st Tm aa & b12poy Cole Aldrich^ C 2007–10 2009 Academic AAotY (2010 Consensus 2nd Tm AA)60 Max Falkenstien Announcer 1945–2006 60 years as The Voice of the Jayhawks
further notes deleted to meet character limit
Posted 12 April 2022, 5:41 p.m.
Speaking of jerseys deserving to be in the Rafters --
Early KU players (all are NCAA recognized Consensus AAs)Tommy Johnson, forward, 1909Ralph Sproull, forward, 1915Dutch Lonborg, guard 1919
Why aren't they up there?
Lawrence native Tommy Johnson, the first truly great hoops and football hero in KU history, is called "the original KU Legend" by KU historians. kuhistory.ku.edu/articles/touchdowns-and-tragedy
Ralph "Lefty" Sproull, another Lawrence native, was the first big time scorer for KU. He led the Missouri Valley Conference in scoring for 3 straight years, and held the records for career points (839) and points in a game (40) until "Cumulus" Clyde Lovellette came along to shatter them in the 1950s.
Arthur C. "Dutch" Lonborg of Horton, Kansas was a 3 sport star at KU, twice all conference in hoops and All American in 1919. The guy is already in the Naismith HOF (as a coach) and the KU Athletics Hall of Fame. Get him in the rafters to recognize his playing career!
What's the hold up, KU? Just because these guys have been dead for decades doesn't mean they don't deserve to be up there. If I was a descendant of one of these guys, I'd be thrilled to stand in for grampa or great-grampa when their jerseys were placed In The Rafters! Make a big thing of it and have all three honored at the same time, or go the three separate ceremonies route, but do it and soon!
Come on, KU, it's long overdue! Get 'er done!
Posted 12 April 2022, 5:33 p.m.
Matt, I don't think you did David's case justice. And I don't think guys that do great things in the NBA but did not do such things at KU should be in the Rafters.
Re: the criteria not being hard & fast, note that there are 8 jerseys there for players that did not meet any of the criteria when they were honored: Kirk Hinrich's #10, Walt Wesley's #13, Darnell Valentine's #14, Jo Jo White & Bud Stallworth's #15, Brandon Rush's #25, Bill Bridges' #32 and Dave Robisch's #40. 2x Big 8 POY Robisch is now covered by Self's addition of Conference POY, but not when honored.
You reported in an earlier article, but not here, about the MOP voting fiasco. 1st, the process had been changed, to included more voters. 2nd, a new app was being used to facilitate the process, but little was done to show the voters how to use it? 3rd, selections had to be in by 2 minutes left in the game.No one got to factor David's heroics in the last 1:30 -- OReb & score over both Bacot & Manek for the lead, then scoring over Manek for the final margin -- into their voting. & IIRC he only lost by 5 votes.
You noted the 40 pts (63% FGA) & 19 REB over the two games, the best totals over both games for any Jayhawk. You did not mention that when DAVE was in, KU outscored the foe by 41 points over both games. When DAVE was out, KU was outscored by 22. No one else on KU came close. Dajuan was +23/-4 & JWil +22/-3. Ochai was +18/+1. The foe ran through KU when Dave was out, especially Bacot. All the first 6 players made critical and important plays, but no one came close to the impact DAVE had for KU. Add in that DAVE played the last 17 minutes of the game with 3 fouls (as you pointed out in elsewhere), that makes his performance even more impressive.
Bottom line is that DAVE had the performance but Ochai, despite his off performance in the title game, had the AA and Villanova eyewash, so DAVE got the short end of the stick on the MOP vote without voters having the benefit of his heroics in the last two minutes. Run right, I have no doubt we would not be having this conversation because DAVE would have been named the MOP. Ochai has said he should have been. Coach Self has gone so far as to say DAVE at least deserves a piece of it.
bottom line: The MOP criteria was one of the original criteria. It is not for a career, it is for performance at the highest level in the last two games played that year, the National Semifinal and Final, and with rare exception (e.g., B.H. Born, KANSAS 1952 and Wilt Chamberlain, KANSAS 1957) has gone to a member of the Championship team. If the MOP voting had not been bungled this ncaat, dave would have been named MOP and we would not be having this discussion. As it was, it was bungled, but it is clear to the discerning eye -- and most importantly to Coach Self, who gave the cut down net to Dave after the MOP was announced in recognition of his efforts -- that DAVE should have been the MOP. He is worthy. honor his jersey!
Posted 12 April 2022, 5:19 p.m.
Sorry to read this. He is going to be a stud for Bill Self and KANSAS during his career.
Get well soon, BP!
Posted 25 February 2022, 9:09 p.m.
Matt, I was wondering who is still with us from the 1952 champions?After a pretty thorough internet search the best I can come up with is this...Bill HeitholtEverett DyeI can find nothing to indicate these two gents have passed.Everyone else, from Head Coach Phog down to team manager Wayne Louderback, has died.
Do you have any info on Heitholt and/or Dye?
Posted 10 February 2022, 12:35 p.m.