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Column: Make or break — CMU game could seal Weis’ fate

Kansas head coach Charlie Weis watches over warmups prior to the Jayhawks' season opener against Southeast Missouri State on Saturday, Sept. 6, 2014 at Memorial Stadium.

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Kansas head coach Charlie Weis watches over warmups prior to the Jayhawks' season opener against ...

It’s beginning to feel as if Kansas University football coach Charlie Weis’ make-or-break season has been downsized to a make-or-break game, at 2:30 p.m. Saturday against Central Michigan at Memorial Stadium.

The start to this season, Weis’ third of a five-year, $12.5 million contract — a bill absorbed mostly by the generosity of deep pockets belonging to some who might feel slighted that Weis never let them close enough for a view into his extremely tight circle — has been so flat as to move up the calendar on decision day regarding the coach’s job security.

Athletic director Sheahon Zenger has an old-school approach to much of his job, and that includes having a distaste for firing coaches in mid-season and handing the reins to an interim head coach. Normally, such a move is too desperate and disruptive. But if Kansas doesn’t defeat Central Michigan on Saturday, the question becomes one of which is less disruptive, moving an interim head coach into the swanky office or leaving in his chair the coach not reaching his athletes. It’s tough to make a case for the latter.

Weis didn’t need to inspire his players to victory against a rock-solid Duke squad loaded with experience and discipline, but it’s not too much to ask the coach to instill enough life into his players to have them run onto the field for the start of the second half. Instead, the Jayhawks walked, showing all the urgency of that guy strolling through the church parking lot, dreading listening to the long-winded preacher.

Once the game resumed, the Jayhawks ran, although not very fast, and too often in futile pursuit of a Blue Devil.

Duke 41, Kansas 3 was preceded by Weis painting an optimistic picture that included him talking about the game being a favorable matchup for KU, which has won precisely 20 percent of its games since Mark Mangino was shoved out the door with a 50-48 career record. The post-Mangino winning percentage drops to zero in 22 games decided by 27 points or more.

With a victory Saturday, Weis would climb from last on the KU all-time coaching list, where he sits with a .192 success rate, to 35th, climbing past Bob Valesente (.205) and Turner Gill (.208). One of Weis’ five victories, at home against West Virginia, left Kansas fans feeling good. An empty feeling was taken back to the car after the other four. Three came against Football Championship Subdivision opponents, by an average margin of just 13 points. The lone Football Bowl Subdivision victory, aside from West Virginia, came by a 13-10 score against a Louisiana Tech squad so vulnerable it was blasted the following week by Army, 35-16.

Worse than those unflattering numbers, the program’s not headed in the right direction. In the three games against FBS competition since Cozart led the Jayhawks to the upset of West Virginia, KU has been outscored, 106-13. In those three losses, Montell Cozart completed 18 of 46 passes for 122 yards, no touchdown passes and four interceptions. That’s a completion percentage of 39, with 2.7 yards per pass attempt against Iowa State, Kansas State and Duke.

Based on what he saw of Cozart in the offseason, Weis expected a more confident, productive quarterback. Cozart looked that way against Southeast Missouri State, but wasn’t prepared for the uptick in competition. Weis also missed on his projections of Dayne Crist and Jake Heaps, which calls into question the coach’s ability to evaluate college talent.

An NFL offensive coordinator’s job is to put the pieces in the right places to leave the defense in unfavorable matchups. A college head coach’s job is to evaluate the right athletes to recruit and then develop them with college-style practices. On game day, the head coach’s most important job is to let intellect take a back seat to inspiration and put the players in the right emotional state to play out of their minds.

Thus far, Weis, a celebrated NFL offensive coordinator, has not shown strength in any of the areas necessary to squeeze victories out of an underdog football program.

If my hunch is right about the importance of Saturday’s game, and if enough boosters make it known they’re ready to pay what it takes, the players still can save their coach. We’ll see how hard they’re willing to play for their coach on the ropes. We’ll see how badly they want to win one for Charlie.

Comments

Doug Cramer

It may not matter how hard the players play. They haven't been trained or prepared to play at this level.

Weis is gone. So thinking ahead, the next coach is screwed because of the JUCO route Weis took. From a talent or playing time standpoint, we are loaded with juniors and seniors.

With these guys leaving the program this year and next year, the next coach is going to inherit a complete disaster. A team that not only lacks talent, but lacks knowledge, past success, and personnel.

We got a long ways to go before we'll ever be competitive.

Sadly the Perkins dagger will affect this program for more seasons to come.

But - if we can strike gold on our next hire...at least we can follow the program with hope that we will eventually become competitive...and have hope that we get better by the season.

Simply put - the next coach is gonna have to know how to patiently "saw wood"

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

Doug, you're not as smart as you think you are. Fifth graders could make more intelligent posts than you.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Says the guy who told me to stop being pessimistic after we barely beat an overmatched FCS team. How's that working for ya now? I said 1-11 and I was told I was a poor fan. We looked so overwhelmed against a team that is decent but no way a top tier team. We were never in the game. Any game we win from here on out will be an upset IMO. I supported Weis. I like the guy but we are showing little to no improvement. Our defense looks no better than it did last season on the field. On paper this team should blow out SEMO and compete with Duke. We're bad. Really bad. And if you really see us winning games I'd sure like to know where. Tait said Texas. Come on really? We have no chance to beat Texas. I see no winnable games on the schedule. Being hopeful and being realistic don't make fans bad they just see the product and evaluate what they see. It doesn't mean we won't cheer and do EVERYTHING we can to help our team win but the reality is we just can't put the pieces together. Here's hoping this weekend will be different than the last. But I'm not holding out much hope.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

Chris, you know what makes mine better than Doug's? I don't have an agenda to hate every coach that doesn't have the last name Mangino like Doug has. It was easy to predict. The problem is coaching, but to revert back to "Mangino" is one of the most immature things one can do.

Of course, you weren't around on Saturday to know why I even posted that.

I watched the same game, but there is no way that Doug is right about the talent level. We do have the talent to be competitive, especially against Duke. There wasn't any discipline and it showed early. Tevin Shaw wasn't even looking at McCaffrey when Duke scored the first TD until McCaffrey was already 10 yards past him running wide open down the middle of the field. The defensive ends were coming up field too far, which resulted in a record single game rushing day for their freshman, who is fast, but not faster than some of the guys we have on defense. There was nobody at home to stop him.

I talked a little about this last week on how KU defenders will have to stay at home and not get caught cheating up. That wasn't the last time Tevin Shaw got caught doing that either. Duke didn't have to make any great plays. They took what our lack of discipline gave them. On the other side of the coin, we didn't take what they gave us. It doesn't matter if we take 6 minutes to score, if we score. We don't need the long ball and we didn't need to do that in the 3rd quarter. We needed to maintain drives by making good decisions and there weren't any good decisions made when the opportunities presented themselves. Cozart didn't make any good decisions on the stretch option. On almost very single one of them, if he would have kept the ball, he would have rushed for 150 yards until they decided to stay home. Then Avery or Mann could have went for 100 and the middle of the field would be open for passes to the wide receivers and tight end on plays that don't take long to develop. In the second half, there were no changes made at all.

Our secondary was pretty solid aside from Tevin Shaw's embarrassing performance. GREG ALLEN needs to start Saturday in the Nickel slot.

Dineen needs to be put in the backfield to be an extra blocker on both running and passing plays. He also played QB in high school and can be used to deceive the other team and force the other team to have to prepare for it.

Charlie Weis needs to bow out of game planning the offense other than the scouting of the other team's defense. Reagan needs to be allowed to call the plays that fit the makeup of this team. Designed runs, some fake stretch options where the QB looks like he's going to fun, then steps back one step and throws to a guy after the Linebackers are sucked in. KU left everything on the field Saturday. They were not prepared.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

I know he beats the mangino drum all the time I just didn't see it in this post. Your assessment is pretty much dead on. And like you I get tired of hearing the mangino coming back talks. It simply won't happen. We do have talent that is the truly sad part. We just can't seem to put it together on the field. The offense may be worse than last year at this point. Pretty sad. I don't think cozart is the answer at QB. We need a true duel threat QB much like Reesing who is undersized and has a chip on his shoulder. We don't land the 4 and 5 star kids. We need those diamonds in the rough. I like Weis but he just doesn't seem like he gets it on the college level.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

"Sadly the Perkins dagger will affect this program for more seasons to come."

You know what that refers to.

His first post after the game was over, "See, Joe Ross, I told you so". Doug has an agenda, and it's not about having a winning team for him. It's about his obsession over Mangino.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Yeah I see it. I don't post as much as I once did. And since we went from showing a screen name to our real names he may have been one that talked him up so much before. It's crazy. And yeah I see it. Pretty crazy. Haha. I also noticed we're both 1973. Too funny.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

And unless you're connected to the program in some way you have no more insight than any of us. So what makes your comments so great? Because you are looking at a glass half full when clearly it's half empty? We come on here and post because we are passionate about our hawks. I'm not on here with the Mangino backers. We all know he isn't coming back. I'm not sure he could recruit very well after what happened anyway. So that ship is sailed. Viable candidates don't have mangino in their last name.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Ron Prichard

Two good posts, Chris. I have been one of the more optimistic people on here, but even I didn't see anything on Saturday to make me think this team has any chance at competing this year. The sad thing is, I have no idea why. By all accounts, this team should be better than it showed on Saturday.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Agree completely.

8 years, 2 months ago

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John Fitzgerald

To me it seemed like a preparation thing and the guys just not being fired up. Both of those lay on the fault of the coaching staff. I think Weis spent too much time telling his guys how they can defeat Duke as opposed to actually working on it. And Reagan has to be embarrassed. His first true test and a less than stellar defense holds his offense to 3 points. Can't say I'd fire Weis because I'm not the expert but I can tell you that game made me sick to my stomach.

8 years, 2 months ago

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John Myers

That's my thing too, Ron. I was commenting about that to a friend. There is no way that our kids are as awful as they look - I just don't think that's possible. And like 'em or not, our coaching staff is not made up of complete scrubs. I just don't get how we can put such a horrible product on the field. I feel for everyone involved.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Max Ledom

Dude, it's time to hop off Mangino.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

Honestly, I would never want to be on Mangino.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jim Erickson

A program cannot keep switching coaches every 2-3 years, but at the same time it is reasonable to see some legitimate progress after 3 years. There hasn't been a shred of progress to date. We have received national attention and a couple big name recruits because of Coach Weis' personality, but the reality is that players are not developing. Kansas is not a program that can out recruit Big 12 competition so player development is essential to building our program. Hopefully things change quickly, but as of 2 years and 2 games, Coach Weis doesn't seem to be the guy for that challenge. <p>
For what it's worth, even if things go further south, I think you have to give the guy the entire season unless he steps down on his own.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

I disagree. Coaches want a challenge and a chance to prove themselves. We can find a good coach. They need only look at the track record of the last two coaches body of work to understand why we friend them. We don't need to apologize for that. If and when we have a vacancy we will have candidates showing interest. Guys want the top job. That is the least of our worries.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Cora Smith

I concur. A merry go round of coaches will not attract anyone in their right mind. By the way, how long did it take for Mangino to really get rolling?

8 years, 2 months ago

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Nick Cole

Two years...
Year 1 (2002): 2-10
Year 2 (2003): 6-6 with a loss in the Tangerine Bowl making his record that year 6-7

And that was with worse talent when he took it over and we had more (and better) teams in our conference. I never liked the Gill hire, I never liked the Weis hire. Third time is a charm? I hope so.

8 years, 2 months ago

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GD Klein

No surprises here. When Weis was appointed KU's head coach, I heard an earful of negative comments from my friends who attended Notre Dame and everything they said is covered in this column and has come to pass.

Time to start looking for a new coach. Put in an interim for the rest of the season and start recruiting a new person. Possible candidate - Jeff Brohm at Western KY.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Scott Proch

Love this school and, because they wear the Crimson and Blue, these kids. If the coach needs to go, the AD who keeps hiring these clowns needs to lead the way out the door.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bryce Landon

Zenger didn't hire Turner Gill.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jim Erickson

Being a fan is sometimes about finding the most intriguing thing to find hope in... 2 games into this season, it is hard for that not to be Coach Mangino's possible return in 2015. <p> If things keep going south (I really hope they don't), it's worth mentioning that a reunion may not be so crazy. Coach Mangino likely hasn't been in discussions for other opportunities for several reasons including the Perkins fiasco. Perkins was fired by the university, party for that reason, so AD Zenger and the university as a whole wouldn't necessarily be seen as "the enemy". The fan base would welcome him back and several of the coaches (including the OC and DC) are Mangino-guys which would be nice for the transition. I also think Mangino would at least pick up the phone and have a meaningful conversation if KU showed some interest. <p>
On our side, a dream candidate would be someone who has a proven ability to build a program from nothing, develop players, develop good game plans, and recruit. A BCS Bowl and National Coach of the Year Award wouldn't hurt either... Sound familiar? :)<p>
Obviously this is all way too premature, but the program has rested at rock bottom for 5 years now and it's really hard not to think in that direction. Would certainly welcome a Coach Weis-led turnaround beginning this week. It's just hard to be optimistic at this point.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Doug Cramer

Jim be prepared that you're going to catch some flack for saying that we need to get Mangino back. But you are 100% correct...we gotta get Mangino back.

Swallow some pride...and lets get the big guy back in Lawrence.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Glen Miller

I have news for you..... Mangino isn't coming back. Even if he was offered the job, he wouldn't take it. Get real. Do you really think he's going to bail out a school that just crapped all over him? Besides, he's not the savior some of you seem to think he is. He was a solid coach, but even if he came back.... he wouldn't be here long. If he turned it around again and was offered another job, he'd bolt. I don't think hiring Mangino back is smart on our part or his.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jim Erickson

Glen... The reality is that Mangino doesn't have people lining up at his doorstep to offer him a job. He may need us as much as we need him. Also, your point about bolting if he were to rebuild... Why is that a bad thing? The fan base would happily take a guy that rebuilds for a few years because 1. those years would obviously have to be good and 2. the program would be left in better shape. Very few Bill Snyders out there.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

Typically I have been one to say let go of the bring Mangino back idea because it just is not happening, but at this point who knows. Some people have obsessed about him coming back has been my major issue, but I want a winner here.

My concern with Weis when we hired him was that he was a name, but he had not had great success as a head coach. That seems to be the case here because he has been able to get a few 4 star transfers, but has not been able to get much production otherwise.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

He isn't going to come back, not with Gray-Little as Chancellor.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Condren

I agree the situation is bad but there is no way we eat Weis' contract. We are stuck with him for the forseable future.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Daniel Kennamore

You vastly underestimate the donor's wallets. It doesn't need to come out of our yearly budget; if they want him gone they could easily drop the money to make it happen.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Daniel Kennamore

Duplicate posting, ignore.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Tom Longhofer

The first year after Wichita State dropped football, they were still ranked ahead of KU in one of the pre season polls and we haven't made any lasting progress since then. Turner Gill was Uncle Fester's revenge for being scapegoated for the basketball ticket fiasco, but I don't know why the current coach was hired. If we decide to drop football, I hope they put the track back in Memorial Stadium.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

Oh please. KU is not getting rid of football. Take your ridiculousness somewhere, anywhere else.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Tom Longhofer

I realize that cannot get rid of football, and I don't think anyone wants too, but we are such a long way from being competitive.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bob Reinsch

Tom, I was at WSU when Lew Perkins cancelled WSU's football program. The "ranking" of which you speak was done by Street & Smith, but it wasn't KU that ranked lower than WSU - it was none other than the K-State Wildcats. Ironically, if memory serves, the one other program ranked behind WSU was Rice, which has performed well of late.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Tom Longhofer

Thanks for the correction - interesting that both K-State and Rice have found a way out of such a deep hole. I hope we can do the same.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Titus Canby

Tom, I love it. Bring back the track! And a great Uncle Fester reference.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Ed Noyes

Respectfully, I disagree with my neighbor "Chris the Jayhawk". I attended the opener and, of course, viewed the Duke debacle. Socializing in the tents before the kickoff, I felt something I have never felt since I arrived at KU in January of 1966...absolute complete disgust from every person with whom I spoke...before the opener even began. I heard, first hand, from some of my Williams Fund buddies that the willingness to effect a buyout is present. Talk is cheap, I know, but the buyout is not. We, the fans and alumni are pretty darned disappointed at this point.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Danny Hernandez

Mangino will never be back. His coaches loathed him, many of the AD personnel loathed him as well as fan. Of course, there are a few fans that love him and they appear to all be on this website. I for one, and I can speak for many alumni I know in the NYC and California areas that never want him back.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Doug Cramer

Us Kansas natives aren't quite as soft as they come in Cali and NYC. We'll gladly take Mangino back. Sorry if he hurts your feelings, but we have a football program to rebuild.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Billy Derringer

AMEN

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Yeah sorry I don't give a Damn what somebody from California or New York says. Let's run our program like those states are run! We'd be great then.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Richard Andrade

I don't expect everyone to know this- we know why Mangino was booted (something Tom Keegan takes every opportunity to lament)- because he was an jerk to his players. I don't care about that. Probably a good thing.

What I care about is that Mangino was a bully and an a**hole to everyone else at KU, particularly to subordinates- from the parking meter ticket person he screamed at for having the temerity to ticket his illegally parked car on campus, to several others drew his ire, none of which had any connection to the athletic department. Individuals in power positions are judged by how they treat those beneath and this guy was a 24-karat ignoramus in that regard.

Maybe you're desperate enough to take back a jacka** who won on the football field, but I can't imagine there isn't a coach out there who can win AND be a decent human being. That guy isn't Mangino.

8 years, 2 months ago

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rggeiger

Until this game I was on the "Give Weis 5 years" side of the discussion. As a displaced Hawk fan in Tarheel/ Wolfpack/ Blue Devil country I was able to make it to the game. What I saw in person, was not what I had read about the team or seen in any past games. It was bleak and hopeless. These guys are not prepared. It is one thing to be outmatched, talent wise, which we probably were. But what I saw was really bad timing in the back field. All the handoffs looked clumsy (and our running game is our strong suit?) While our O line does need improving, they weren't collapsing instantly. Cozart had time to make some passes but the receiver's inability to get open had him trying to run to buy more time nearly every passing play. I'm no coach, wasn't even much of a player, but I can see a bad handoff. You can't coach size, you can't coach speed, but you can coach route running and you can coach handing the ball off to the running back. They looked like a really bad high school team, and that I know because my daughter's high school team is a really bad high school team. I won't even discuss the defense, I think the score did that.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Andy Tweedy

Right now, about the only thing nice I can say about this season is how much I love those helmets!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

I am curious who would be the interim head coach and I would presume it will be Reagan. I am not saying anything except, what if the team performs well under the interim head coach if we give him a chance to take over.

Now, before I get scolded, which may happen, the reason I say this for Reagan is he is new to the regime and if he brings a semblance of success to the rest of the season then maybe his new way of thinking would work, depending on whatever his way of thinking is. If the interim coach is someone who has been here and we do better I would be hesitant because that coach has been here and would still not be a fresh enough face and idea. At this point I really don't know, but just a thought. Either way, we need something new.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jonathan Briles

I would be pretty disappointed if Reagan were given the interim job. His offense so far has looked unimaginative and clumsy. His position has still been the worst on the team. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but he has coached them to literally fall down in front of the defensive line to just push them outside and against duke the defender literally jumped over our falling guy and had a clear path to the backfield. I don't think he is ready for this level. Kisaeu however has spent a good deal of time at this level and had reasonable success. He would be my vote for interim coach and quite honestly my vote to be our offensive coordinator.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

I would say if and when Weis is shown the door, which sounds like it will probably happen, whoever takes over needs to be someone that can inspire the team because they do not look inspired. Only reason why I will not discount Reagan yet is because often times coaches come in and they do not mesh with the head coach philosophy. It is possible, but I am not saying for certain that Reagan maybe being held back by Weis. Weis leaves, it will be interesting to see who takes over and what changes occur because as of now Cozart is not the answer at QB and our offensive line is atrocious. I do like your points about Kiesau though.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

2 games. Reagan was KU's Offensive line coach and run coordinator for five years before he went to Rice. Reagan isn't the problem here. It's Weis and guys like Powlus. Powlus needs to coach QBs according to Reagan's offense, not Weis's.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Judging by the way we ran the option Powlus has no idea how to do that. If I remember correctly he was a pocket passer in college and seemingly can't coach worth a crap but since he's a Weis guy he gets a chance. Hire a Tommy Frasier type QB. Get someone in their that knows how to run and throw.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

It's not even that. It's demonstrating patience and waiting for the blocks. All it really takes is the blockers being physical instead of trying to finesse everything.

However, on Saturday, it would have been a matter of just Cozart pulling the ball and taking off because Duke wasn't staying at home. When we weren't running the stretch option, we were running routes down the field. That happened the whole game. We don't need 10 plus yard routes every time we pass. Five yard gains in the pass game are okay if that's what the defense gives. Those shorter pass plays don't take as long to develop, but it's gotta be set up by establishing the run. That requires the right decision to be made in the stretch option or faking the stretch option and dumping the ball over the middle to a guy like Pierson with only one guy to beat for a big gainer.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chandler Accipiter

In a power conference money is non-issue when it comes to firing and hiring coaches. The money is always there thanks to TV contracts.

Nice article, but the staff may want to push Weis a bit on some of these issues. It seems like there are those happy to let him bloviate in pressers providing little insight while giggling along fawningly.

Someone could have brought up when he praised the passing D that 180 and 2 TDs was all done in three quarters, and when you have a back go for 250 and Duke totals over 550, there are no silver linings.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

It sure I have seen optimism turn to pessimism so quickly. I agree that CMU game is must wi, but I think Zenger let's Weis see how the season plays out. One could argue that we are putting in a new offense and have a new coach and it will take some time to get everyone used to the new system, which is a fair argument. Certainly, if there is no passion or fire in the way the players are playing, that is a bigger problem.

Some comments to comments made over the weekend.

1. KU can't afford to buy out Weis. Yes they can. They are no longer paying Mangino, Perkins and Gill and if you haven't heard, KU is getting record revenue. In addition, we have wealthy donors.

2. It takes some time to build a program. You got to give a coach more than 3 years. I agree. But there should be some barometer that shows progress even if that is not wins on the field. At the end of the day, if the AD is convinced he made a mistake in hiring, it is probably best to go another direction and cut your losses. But unless, Zenger has a better coach waiting to hear from him, there is no need to make a change during the season.

3. No one will come to a school that fired three coaches in five years. That is also not true. Any assistant of small college coach would jump at coaching in the Big 12. Today, KU is probably one of the worst Big 5 conference jobs now so any up and coming assistant or small college coach will probably have better options than KU to choose from.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brock

KU has wealthy donors? Standing back and looking at the KU football program - and its facilities - it does not appear that they have given much.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

While the stadium leaves a lot to be desired, my understand is that the rest of the football facilities are pretty good and compare favorably with other Big 12 programs.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

KU has top notch facilities. And we aren't getting an overhaul of a stadium until we have a winning program. So I hope you're patient.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

Yes, KU has wealthy donors. Have you seen the new apartments that going to be built for the basketball programs and the new building to house the Naismith rules, and a KU donor buying the Naismith rules? You are right that the donors don't appear to care very much about the football program though.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bryce Landon

Let's be real - it's not as if the Kansas football program has consistently given them any reason to make them feel like it's a worthwhile monetary investment.

8 years, 2 months ago

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John Fitzgerald

If we lose Saturday I hate to say it but Weis could be out the door. Part of me doesn't agree mainly from a money standpoint for the school, but the other part just wants to win and he hasn't been very good at that part. If we fought Duke hard then it changes things. But the game started with a bad snap and ended with a 41-3 stomping. Did we even try? Weis is a smart guy and has proven to be a great offensive coordinator ... for the NFL. But I think he should give up the clip board and understand college isn't for him. Here's the real burning question though ... If he does get fired who replaces him at interim head coach? If Weis can't inspire these players the other coaches sure aren't doing a great job at it either. My bet would be Reagan or Campo, but I wouldn't expect things to get better. If they do, then you can call me wrong and I'll be happy to accept it. As for Mangino coming back, I'd be hard pressed to believe that he'd actually want to. He may like to get the offer, but I'm just not sure he would be willing to come back to his "ex girlfriend" that cheated on him and through him out of his home. We will see how it all unfolds. All I know is this Saturday better be a 30 point victory or I'm not sold on keeping him.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

Zenger has to give Weis an ultimatum. Does Zenger have that in him?

I didn't see them come back onto the field in the second half walking and not even charged when down by only 17 points at the half when it could have been worse. Maybe they were tired of the same half time speech from every other game and the lack of making any adjustments, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm not going to blame the players right now because I don't think they're being coached to win games. I don't think the coaches are being allowed to do their jobs by the head man. I think Weis isn't letting go of his system. There is no excuse for what happened on Saturday. There was no execution and we saw these guys do it for one quarter. They need to do that for 4 quarters, and if they would have, Duke doesn't score 41 and Kansas scores 30 plus. It seemed like it was the same plays being called the whole game like last season. Don't give up on the passing game, MAKE IT WORK with the right PLAYS called. It's not that hard Charlie.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

Weis isn't calling the plays, his offense coordinator is. If you're pissed at the offense, Reagan deserves some blame too.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

Allison, at least, Reagan is calling the plays that are approved by Weis in the game plan. It's the same thing that went on the past two years. Weis gets down by 14, then turns the page to pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, don't let the quarterback run when he has the space, pass, pass, pass, pass, don't want to allow the athletic QB actually show it".

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

Micky, one of the biggest issues Weis talked about in regards to the offense was the Cozart wasn't running when he should have. That doesn't sound like a coach keeping a QB from running. Cozart's decision making is below average when it comes to reading defenses, going through his progressions, and when to take off and run.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

I am clearly the only fan on here that thinks at the very least Weis deserves his 3rd year. We are TWO GAMES IN with basically a rookie quarterback, a BRAND NEW offense, BRAND NEW offensive coordinator, and a handful of injuries. I'm plenty embarrassed of our football team, but I'll be just as embarrassed if we fire our 3rd coach in 5 years. We will always be able to find the money to fire a coach if need be, but who is going to come to KU after the little support we give our head coaches? I sure as heck wouldn't, and I can't name any who would.

To clarify, I do not think Weis is our long term answer and was originally disappointed in the hire, but this team is better than it was 3 years ago. David Cutcliffe didn't have a winning season until 2013, 6 years into his job, no bowl games until his 5th season at an extremely weak football conference. Sorry to break it to all of you, but you've gotta give a head football coach at a basketball school more than 2 years and 2 games.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

I agree with almost everything you said. Essentially, I was not that thrilled with the hiring of Charlie Weis, but now that he is the head coach, we have to give him every opportunity to succeed. I do think that by the end of this year, we will know if Weis will succeed or not. Unless, we get blown out in every game, I fully expect Weis to come back for a fourth year.

I am not sure that the comparison with Duke is really valid. Duke had not tasted any success in the previous 15 years, unlike Kansas. Duke had not made all of the investments in facilities like KU, and I think, even though it did not translate to wins on the field, the team got more and more competitive each year.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

Its not a perfect example, but it does a good enough job pointing out that you have to give your coach enough time. Duke has shown more progress year after year, but they also were blessed with his team only playing an average of 2 ranked teams a season and an overall weak conference. KU and Weis do not have that luxury, and it clearly shows. I hope to see the rest of the season play out before any decisions are made.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Sae Thirtysix

Allison,

I like your optimism, the long play here isn't HCCW. CMU coming off the SU loss and . . . this week stands to be ugly and very painful - the Boilermaker faithful are hoping that ugly comes the JHawk way >21pts.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

I'm really not optimistic, like I said I don't think he is a long term solution. I pride myself on being a very realistic fan, which means I am usually not let down (ex. Chiefs last night) But I think he deserves to get through his third year before he is canned.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

I would feel very sorry for myself if I expected Charlie Weis & Co. to light it up the next 2 years. No. I don't.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

I'm not "defending" him per say, and I didn't ask for 6 years. I asked for 3 so I'm not embarrassed of firing our 3rd coach in 5 years. I ask for a 3rd season because I do not believe an interim coach is going to solve any of our problems. I ask for 3 seasons, because who is going to want to come here if we don't give him that? It has nothing to do with CW, it has to do with what happens afterwards.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

I will definitely jump on the "Bring Mangino back" bandwagon, however unrealistic that is, at the END of CW's third year.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Micky Baker

The talent is better, but the coaching isn't even noticeable.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Joseph Bullock

Allison, Did you say that when they fired Turner Gill? How many years did he get? At least they kids showed progress, and were competitive! And why do players keep leaving The program (like the cornerback who left just before the season started)?

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown


By the way, to those who haven't seen this, this is a very good article that describes the fall of KU's football fortunes that last five years.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/...

8 years, 2 months ago

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Michael Maris

Good article. I had not gotten around to reading the Wichita Eagle this morning. But, here's my question? Just very frustrating to see that the University of Kansas Athletic Department (otherwise known as Kansas University) seems to careless about their Football program.

I'm very good friends with an attorney back in Akron, Ohio who regularly attends the Ohio State Buckeye's football games. So, I asked him to inquire with Earl Bruce as to how serious Coach Bruce was about the Jayhawks offer back in the '80's to coach the Jayhawks. Coach Bruce wanted the Jayhawks job (back then) and was very much ready to take the job.. But, U. of Kansas was NOT willing to do some of the things that Coach Bruce wanted (Guaranteed stuff, etc...., which was standard back in the '80's for Big 10 Schools). Ultimately, Coach Bruce feared that Kansas wasn't serious about Football and obviously Coach Bruce didn't have enough confidence in the Jayhawks Administration to take the Kansas job. So, they mutually parted ways. But, Coach Bruce was very willing to take the job, had his conditions been met.

Sadly it seems, perhaps these big time $$$$$$$$$$ donors (that keep getting referred to on this site) could careless about the football program and therefore they don't support the program and that's the reason that the Football Stadium hasn't been updated, etc......... NO SUPPORT from the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Donors. Glenn Mason wanted the same thing for him to stay at Kansas. And, he was shown the door as well.

In the past 20 years, how many of the participating schools in the Power 5 conference have upgraded their stadiums (and continue to upgrade)? But, not Ole Memorial Stadium. Sure there was talk of doing the upgrades during the later part of the Mangino Era. But, that QUICKLY came to a halt as soon as Mangino was witch hunted out the door by Lew ''Mr. Kill a 2nd Football Program (hence Wichita State in 1986) Perkins in the State of Kansas. So, where are these $$$$$$$$$$$ people to back the program?

K-State sure seems to have their ducks in a row. They found a guy who was willing to ''Build It, AND They Will COME''. I am anxious to see what happens when Coach Snyder decides to retire for good this next time. I'm betting that K-State will do their best to hire the RIGHT Coach this next time. Sure, that coach will have some mighty big shoes to fill when he's hired. That coach better be damn willing to allow Coach Snyder to come and go as he pleases. Otherwise, that coach will face some hard times in ''Little'' Manhattan.

So in the end, I feel it's a combination of a LOT of things. If the $$$ Donors aren't willing to truly fund the football program. Then, we fans of the Jayhawk football program are going to endure a LOT more disappointing season vs. Glenn Mason, Mark Mangino type era's. The AD will always be looking for the next diamond in the rough to hire for the coming future if the $$$$$$$$$$$$'s not there to support the program.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

You're right in that the only way KU has any chance of building and sustaining any long term success in football is if the Phil Anschutz's and David Booth's commit significant financial resources prior to KU having any meaningful success on the field.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bryce Landon

As I understand from Max Falkenstein's books about KU, Bob Frederick, the AD who hired Mason, said that Earl Bruce wanted KU to pay him $1 a year, which would force OSU to continue to pay him under the conditions of his firing, to which Frederick would not agree, and that's why we didn't get Earl Bruce.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chandler Accipiter

Great article. Thanks for posting this.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Chris Bailey

Good article and doesn't sound too good for Weis' future. How's that 3-9 season gonna happen? And that was something Zenger isn't gonna stomach. I'm betting he really won't like the 1-11 season we're about to have!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Kyle Sybesma

I posted this on Tait's "The Day After" but I thought it was worth pointing again here.

I think to give an honest assessment of Weis we need to look at other similar programs who were hunting for a coach at the same time we were. What we don't know is if we pursued any of these coaches or if any turned us down because Zenger is very stealthy. In the coaching search and the conference realignment.
Washington State - Mike Leach. Overall 10-18 (5-13 in PAC 12). Last year went 6-7 (4-5) and lost in last seconds in New Mexico Bowl game to Colorado State. Leach was a popular name in Lawrence.
North Carolina - Larry Fedora. Overall 17-10 (9-7 in ACC). First year he went 8-4 (5-3). Tied for first in Coastal Division. Last year UNC won the Belk Bowl. Off to a 2-0 start.
Texas A&M - Kevin Sumlin. This may not be the best comparison but A&M was not a powerhouse in the Big 12. Overall 23-6 (11-6 in SEC). Won Cotton Bowl in year one and Chick-fil-A Bowl in year 2. Oh and beat #1 Alabama in Alabama with a freshman quarterback. A&M is perhaps the hottest football program in the country.
Colorado - Mike MacIntyre (Starting his 2nd year) Overall 5-10 (1-9 PAC 12). CU is awful but last night they didn't embarrass themselves vs #16 Arizona State. They lost 38-24. They won a road game last weekend on the east coast to UMass 41-38.
Illinois - Tim Beckman. Overall 8-19 (1-15 Big 10). He's in the same boat as Charlie Weis. One conference win but they were scoring points in their losses. Maybe they need our defense and we need their offense.
Arizona - Rich Rodriquez. A basketball school with limited football history like KU. Overall 19-10 (8-10 in PAC 12). Won New Mexico Bowl in year one and AdvoCare V100 Bowl (never heard of it) in year 2. Off to a 3-0 start.
Clearly the facts are against Weis. How can we build our program when money is being spent to buy out coaching contracts. That is the biggest reason why I think Weis will get another year. Another is Reagan needs time with Cozart. The third is we can't send the message to future coaches that you get 2 (Gill) or 3 (Weis) years to turn around a freight train.
Names to keep an eye on since we have another year of this. All head coaches in the SEC West. They are all good/great coaches and they can't all win. Ole Miss - Hugh Freeze (top 25 currently). Auburn -Gus Malzahn (played for national championship). A&M - Kevin Sumlin. Mississippi State - Dan Mullen. LSU - Les Miles (never going to happen). Arkansas - Bret Beilema (why he left Wisconsin I'll never know) Alabama - Nick Saban (never going to happen but you see how difficult this division is). None will get fired after next year but names to keep an eye on.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

I read what you posted yesterday, but am not sure what you are trying to conclude. I think you are preaching patience which is reasonable. Each program listed was in a different situation and it is hard to make conclusions based on the results at those schools. If you are concluding that we should have picked someone else two years ago, you assume that any of the guys listed would picked KU over any other offer and that is probably not true since the KU job is close to one of the worst jobs amongst the Power conferences.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Kyle Sybesma

I agree that all schools are in different situations and I said above we don't know if we pursued any of the coaches but I do think we CAN make conclusions based on the results. They are power conference schools with minimal football history (minus A&M) and hired coaches at the same time or after Weis. The questions are:

1. Are we not pursuing the right coach?
2. Are the right coaches not interested in Kansas? If so, why not?

We are in a chicken and the egg situation. Do we need facilities not only to attract players but to attract a good head coach or do we need to win to justify building facilities?

Most of all I'm stating that Weiss (who I was excited about when hired) is clearly not taking steps forward. If we lose to CMU and end the season with one win then we have taken steps backwards, if that's possible. But Kansas is not in a position monetarily to fire Weis. How do we hire a quality coach when we have shown that Gill gets 2 years and Weis gets 3?

This conversation can go in so many directions but we are only left with questions.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mike Barnhart

That's why Zenger has to be the first one fired. He had sooo many options in 2011 and shocked us all by hiring CW. It was a sexy, loud, headline grabbing hire that had NOTHING to do with football and everything to do with booster happiness. Here's a news flash, BOOSTERS LIKE WINNING!!!!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Kyle Sybesma

Can't argue with tht Mike. As much heat as Weis has taken in the last 48 hours. Zenger has to be feeling it too. Especially when people are calling for Weis's job and he has to go to the boosters and ask for the money to buy him out. He's probably also staring at the rederings of Memorial Stadium wishing he could be asking for money for that.

Reality is that KU may first need to look for a new AD after the school year and let the new AD evaluate Weis after the 2015 season. Maybe we should look for an associate AD at a Ohio State, Forida, Florida State, Texas or any other major football school who has a fundraising background and football ties.

I like Zeger but I like Weis and Gill and Terry Allen too.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

We don't know where Charlie Weis was on Zenger's list when Weis was offered the job. Did Zenger offer 2 coaches first, 3 coaches, 5??? That's something we don't know because it's bad PR to announce all that stuff publicly.

Zenger's job isn't going to be in danger anyway because just about every other sport is significantly improved, facilities have been or are being upgraded under Zenger.

And Kyle, if you want an AD with a fundraising background with a football background. Zenger was an assistant coach under Bill Snyder when Snyder was building KSU, after Zenger got out of coaching, he headed up the fundraising at KSU when their football stadium was undergoing significant upgrades in the early 2000's.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Justin Lindsley

Does anyone really believe that Weis was AD Zenger's first option? I don't. My guess is he talked to several others first and couldn't sell the Jayhawk football program to them. My question is what big name coach would want to come here now?

I think Weis deserves the rest of the year and see how it plays out. Then make a decision. Remember Reagan had offensive success at Rice. He might be the guy to take over this program. If not him, it will likely be someone like him.

Our best chance is to find someone like Bill Snyder. I was to young to know much about Snyder, but I think he was pretty much a no name when State hired him.. That is what KU needs, to find the diamond in the rough. A guy who will "OWN" the program and want to stay here long term (with success). I find it unrealistic that KU can grab someone with very much previous success. And if by chance we did, would they bolt at the first "better" job available?
Just sayin. Rock Chalk!!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

I agree with you, but I think you have inadvertantly hit on one of the problems in selection process. The fans and probably the athletic department want to hire a "big name coach'. Why would a big name coach come to KU? After Mangino was fired, Perkins swung for the fences and eventually came up with Turner Gill, who was actually a strong candidate for the Auburn job before they hired Chizic. Zenger must have also fallen into this trap in his search. We would have been better off hiring an up and coming assistant who recruited high school kid and take our lumps for a few years but watching progress being made.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Steve Corder

There is ALWAYS hope. Remember Baylor - Briles (high school) & K-State - Snyder

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bob Bailey

All of a sudden, it's coaching.

Why didn't you pay attention when a few said so all along. The answer doesn't seem to appear here. First get rid of Zenger. He has displayed his ability to judge coaching. Then take reasonable and logical steps to make corrections. Nothing wrong with our talent; Weis and Campo have done better than anyone, given our 4 year history. Let the newcomers display their skills. Hire a competent DC immediately! Also a capable QB coach.

Look for Warriner to come back as HC.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Fred Whitehead Jr.

Too bad. Another victim to the KU basketball program has appeared.

Programs at Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Kansas State are very strong for their football programs. At KU, it is the basketball team. You do not see the strong support at KU for the football team. It is mostly, "Well, basketball season is a few months away.

No coach, not even Bob Stoops could flourish in the atmosphere where the round ball sport receives so much ink and support, and the "pointy" ball sport is reduced to second class sport.

Until KU shows a distinct level of support and desire for football there will be no success in this sport. There is too much of that support at Baylor, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas State and Oklahoma State for this to happen.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

Not sure how this related to the basketball success. By the way, all the teams you mentioned also have fairly decent basketball programs. How happy would everyone be if KU's football program was the equivalent of OU or OSU's basketball program?

8 years, 2 months ago

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Scott Bonnet

Chris Klieman or David Cutcliffe? I know we can afford to pay these guys more than they are getting in their current positions. Look at what Cutcliffe has done with Duke. I realize Klieman is at North Dakota State an FCS school, but good God look what he has accomplished.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Michael Maris

And, did you see how many fans were in the Stadium for the KU @ Duke game?

25,000 plus. So, Duke fans seem to care less than the KU fans do (in my opinion). David Cutcliffe won't be at Duke nearly as long as Bill Snyder's been at K-State. What will happen to Duke football after a disciplinarian head coach like Cutcliffe is gone from there? Same thing that happened after Steve Spurrier left Duke for Florida. Back to the bottom of the barrel. Because, it sure looks like there's even less football support at Duke than there is at Kansas. Hell, Duke still has their track around their football stadium.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

David Cutcliffe is 59 and has health issues.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Kyle Sybesma

Chris Klieman is in his first year as head coach at NDSU. Craig Bohl was there for 11 years. He's in his first year at Wyoming and had a 7 to 0 lead after the first quarter vs Oregon. Yes Oregon. It didn't end well for Wyoming but still.

If I'm Cutcliffe, I wouldn't want to do what I just did at Duke and then do it again at Kansas. I'm looking to move to a better program. He has a strong coaching history. He coached Eli Manning at 'Ole Miss.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Joseph Bullock

has Weis done any better than Turner Gill did? No. In fact, he has had much better support, and much longer to recruit. I won't say Gill was a good coach (but he was never given the time to be a good coach, at K.U.), but when I heard so many people calling for his head, so soon, yet so many saying give Weis 5 years, I have to wonder about the motives of many people! At least Gills players, played their hearts out for him, and had some very close games, which at least showed some progress! Personally, I'm still a Mangino fan. I doubt he will ever be back here, because of some people who have very big Egos, but I would welcome him back!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Allison Steen

uhhhhh no. Just no no no no no. nooooo!

8 years, 2 months ago

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John Thomas

The truth hurts....By the way, Gill is doing fairly well at Liberty...Good job Zenger (sarcasm)

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

Colorado in Gill's first year and Baylor when RG3 won the Heisman in year two are the only close Big 12 games I remember under Gill. Weis has had close calls against OSU, Texas, and was within a single score of Oklahoma with less than 5 minutes left last year on top of the WVU win.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brown

Close game with Iowa State. I think the score was something like 13-10. Led Missouri at halftime in final game. Played Texas Tech competitively at home. Not every game was a blow out. It just seemed that way.

8 years, 2 months ago

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John Thomas

and close calls equals how many wins?....0

8 years, 2 months ago

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Joseph Bullock

Aaron, is Duke a Big 12 team. And Gill came into a program that was totally in shambles! How easily they forget-what they want to forget. My point is this, normally, I believe, like Allison, that every coach who takes over a program, should get at least 5 years to turn that program around. People at Mizzou were calling for their coaches head, but the administration stuck with him, and look at them now. Not that I'm saying Weis should stay, because I don't believe in him. I was hoping for at least a close game at Duke! I'm soooooo disappointed!

8 years, 2 months ago

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DaNeille Dani Davis

For crying out loud! Will y'all just shut up! How are we ever going to build our program if we don't keep a coach for more than 3 years?!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Scott Bonnet

Have the coach demonstrate some form of progress on the field.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Kyle Sybesma

Fair question.

Another fair question. How are we ever going to build a program when we lose to Duke by 38 points and get out scored in the 2nd half by SEMO in our coaches 3rd year?

8 years, 2 months ago

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Doug Roberts

Charlie Weis is an excellent NFL offensive coordinator.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jonathan Allison

Hire Mack Brown!
.........
.........
.........
... just kidding...

8 years, 2 months ago

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kellerman411

I can't believe no one has suggested Dave Campo.. At least as an interim solution, he seems like the logical choice. The man has been a head coach at the highest of levels (Dallas Cowboys) and I really don't see what harm he could do at this point.

As for Weis, it's over. I've been back and forth on him ever since he got hired. He's a very good talker and it's hard not to believe the things he says but I just don't think he's a good leader. Also, his attention to detail is no where near where it should be as seen by his team's attention to detail. Honestly though, no hard feelings toward the guy. I'm just ready to move on from it.

KU doesn't need a big name coach.. we need a nobody, someone young and hungry. It is going to take energy to get this ball rolling again. I think we should target someone under 45 years of age who has proven themselves perhaps at a school outside of the major conferences, or even an FCS school.

8 years, 2 months ago

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kellerman411

Also, I think we should cap the salary for our next head coach at 1 million with no guaranteed money.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Brandon Mahon

I think Campo could be a good Interm coach because of his past. Now that would allow Reagan the rest of the year to show improvement in Offense and OLINE. Also see if Bowen could do anything with the D. I would also like Keasau get a look because he has been an OC at Washington an was successful, and he also has been very successful as WR coach at 4 BCS schools. I also pray to god that Reggie Mitchell stays or gets a look because he has been the most solid position coach and recruiter we have had. I wish we could find a diamond like OLE MISS new ball coach. The one thing i liked about Gill was the fire he showed on the sideline 24/7. I want to see that in Weis or the next coach. I want the coach shows fire, yells and jumps around and shows that he is all into the program. I know Weis cant run or jump but he seems checked out

8 years, 2 months ago

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Aaron Paisley

I don't like the idea of firing a coach for on field performance issues at the college level because the situation isn't going to improve with an interim coach.

That said, if Dr. Zenger went that route, I would think Campo would definitely be a possibility to be the interim coach. It also wouldn't be surprising if he went with Reagan or Reggie Mitchell as interim coach. Mitchell was the interim coach between Gill and Weis and I believe he was also an interim coach while he was at Illinois.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

The reason I say no to Campo is he was the head coach for the Dallas Cowboys and they were undisciplined, and the beginning of the end happened under his leadership. He is a nice guy and all, but not head coach material. For the end of the year let's go with either Reagan or Kiesau and give one of them a chance at a head coaching spot.

8 years, 2 months ago

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GD Klein

I nominate Jeff Brohm, coach at Western Kentucky He's young late 30's/ early forties, experienced,well-trained out of the Petrino school, developed some good quarterbacks (on a week team) and is doing very well.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Brandon Mahon

Morris, Narduzzi, Beaty, Warriner, Solich, Schiano, Montgomery

8 years, 2 months ago

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Cora Smith

It makes me mad when I am listening to the Crimson and Blue show and they start hawking Late Night in the Phog when we are two games into the football season. The shadow of basketball is so large there is no sun for growing a football program. I love the basketball but it dominates year round.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Waylon Cook

Does Zenger get any heat for this?

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jonathan Allison

From the fans? yes. Bernadette Gray-Little? Nah, I doubt it.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Roman St George

As a Notre Dame fan for life, I feel your pain. CW was a good offensive co-ordinator. However, remember, the Pats were also stealing signals from the opposing sideline or coaching booth. I forget which. Since then, the Pats have been good, not quite great.

With that being said, Weis is a TERRIBLE developer of talent. He expects a 5* kid to know the game inside and out as if he were a professional. ALL of these kids need coaching, mental development as well as physical development. Weis offers none of that. When at ND we saw so many kids that never lived up to the hype.

As if my opinion matters a hill of beans, I would look to a successful D2 school for my next coach. Find a guy that is used to playing with less and also used to developing players. He might use the position to land a bigger job after 4-6 years but he could probably make the program respectable. Weis is turning your program into a joke. You need a builder, almost like a drill instructor that will break the kids down and rebuild them into football playing machines.

I feel for you all. I've been there. I wish you all the best and may the coming seasons be successful.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mike Barnhart

I don't trust Zenger to hire another coach! He's the same guy who picked CW out of the blue in 2011!

8 years, 2 months ago

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Max Ledom

Before Mangino's last season, there was strong rumblings he was headed to Miami to take over the Hurricane program. He would have bolted. He is just fine at Iowa State, and will be back as a D1 coach eventually. Just not here. And it is ridiculous to think he would take the job. Who takes a job back that he was fired from when he's got better things going for him anyways?? It makes ZERO sense.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

Here are some coaching candidates that could be of interest:

1. Louisiana-Lafayette's 45-year-old Mark Hudspeth, 94-34 as a head coach.
2. Ohio State offensive coordinator Tom Herman, who led the nation's No. 3 offense last season and is a former Rice and Texas assistant coach.
3. Clemson OC Chad Morris, a former Texas high school coach.
4. Texas A&M OC Jake Spavital;
5. ECU OC Lincoln Riley, another native Texan who coached at Texas Tech.
6. Baylor offensive coordinator Phillip Montgomery.

I mention Texas ties because that is a place we need to have success in recruiting.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Robert Brock

I would be shocked if a decent player from Kansas City would consider KU.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Mark Lindrud

The right coach hire will be critical in recruiting to start with, and to maintain the returning talent we do have. I am in favor of Phillip Montgomery. This could be a very busy year for football either way.

8 years, 2 months ago

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kellerman411

No coordinators... It's just too risky. There are hundreds of great coordinators who have failed as a head coach. Not that they don't deserve a chance but we need a proven head coach from a little school IMO. If we make one more bad decision, we'll be looking at a decade of some of the worst football anyone has ever seen.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Jerry Walker

" Weis and Campo have done better than anyone, given our 4 year history." - bob bailey

Ye gods man...have you lost your mind?

8 years, 2 months ago

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kellerman411

I think he was talking about recruiting... Given the amount of wins we've had in the last 4 years, Weis and Campo have gotten some talent. The problem is none of it has been in the trenches really. There's also been bad luck with off field issues and injuries.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Bryce Landon

After the debacle that was the Turner Gill era at Kansas, I was convinced that anyone would be better than Gill. I liked the Weis hire because he was a big name and because he had taken his first two Notre Dame teams to BCS bowls.

When Weis went 1-11 in his first season, I was still on his side because (A) he had a bunch of Gill's undisciplined players and (B) because they were competitive enough that, if one or two breaks had gone their way, they could have been 6-6 that year.

But then came year two of the Weis regime, and while Kansas went 3-9 and won a conference game for the first time in two years, it seemed like the program had regressed. That team got blown out almost as often as a Gill team and never gave me any reason to believe that they could be any better than 4-8 at best.

Now here we are in year three, having nearly blown a big lead against SEMO in a victory and getting waxed by Duke. All the naysayers who panned the Weis hire are proving to be right. Granted, it seems like some of the naysayers wanted Weis to fail because they resented his arrogant attitude from his days at Notre Dame, but those naysayers appear to be right. We can't justify keeping him around. He's not that much better than Gill, except that he's better at sounding like he knows what he's talking about than Gill did.

If this season ends and we don't win 4 games minimum, it's time to hit the reset button again.

#FIRE CHARLIE WEIS!

8 years, 2 months ago

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kellerman411

I disagree that 4 wins is enough to keep Charlie and I'll tell you why. As new as this team might seem, we're senior laden! A lot of the talent that we have are upper classman which means that next year we won't really be building on a lot. We will be starting new AGAIN.

This team should be COMPETING in the Big 12. That means at least 3-4 conference wins and no more than 2-3 blowouts. If that doesn't happen, I don't see how you can look at next year and say "Oh yeah, things look good."

8 years, 2 months ago

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Doug Cramer

Very true Kellerman.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Glen Miller

You people amaze me at the lack of critical thinking you exhibit when it comes to Mangino. Let me break it down like this for you. Other than 2007 and 2008, where the talent on our team was legitimate and we had NFL type players. Mangino never won more than 6 games and never finished better than 4th in the North Division. The year we won the Orange Bowl we got beat by the only good team we played on our schedule outside of Virginia Tech. We didn't play Oklahoma or Texas that year and didn't even make it to the Big 12 Championship game. It was a great win in our history, but if you look closer, we shouldn't have even been in a BCS game. We got lucky that Missouri had to play OU twice (their only 2 losses). Mangino had a 23-41 conference record in his tenure. Including a 2-14 combined record against OU, Texas and Nebraska. He had a winning conference record only once in 8 years and a .500 record another. All the rest were losing conference records. We had a 3-15 record against ranked opponents and two of those wins were in our Orange Bowl season (one of which was a #24 Kansas State team that was dropping fast and finished with a losing record). SO yeah, he did better than some.... but is one good season in 8 all it takes to satisfy us as a fan base? Are we really that easy to please that we want to bring a guy who had one good season and a couple ok seasons pancaked around a bunch of awful seasons in to SAVE our football program????? No thank you..... I want someone who will come in and WIN conference games. I want someone who will bring in 4 star recruits and actually coach them, instead of bringing in a bunch of JUCO guys that played good in a watered down football division. I want a coach who is going to sustain success and build this program. If we start winning and we start getting recruits in here, then we will be able to keep a good coach. We have the boosters, support and a fan base that wants for our team to show us they can win and if they do.... we'll pack Memorial Stadium just like we do the Phog. But until this administration and our coaches and players give us something to be proud of, why should the onus be on us fans and supporters who have been done so wrong for so many years. If Kansas State, Baylor, and Duke can come out of the doldrums to be good programs with good coaches that have STAYED, surely we can find a guy to make our program relevant and respectable...... but that guy is not Mangino. Unless you just want to be "ok" as a program. I'm tired of mediocrity and bad coaching and you should be too.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Michael Leiker

Anybody can look at the stats and the records, people who watch KU Football closely saw the product on the field and understand the level KU was playing at during the Mangino years. They were consistently competitive in most aspects of the game even when the roster was full of 2 star guys. Players got better, year after year, consistently.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Glen Miller

I watched plenty close. I agree the product on the field was competitive. I also agree that players got better. You obviously didn't pay close attention to my post though. I was just showing that while we were a better team, we were still not contenders. I want us to be contending for Big 12 titles, not just giving teams a good game. Mangino was a good start, but it's going to take a better coach than him to get us where I want us to be. If a good year once every 8 is what you're looking for then Mangino is your guy. I want it to be where we maybe have 1 BAD year in 8 years. We have all the resources and facilities we need to be more competitive on a consistent basis, but Mangino is not the coach to take us there. That was my point. You can have your average, I want better.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Lance Hobson

From Hoosiers: "This goes a lot deeper than one game don't you think? " Offer Mangino the job out of respect for him.

8 years, 2 months ago

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Richard Heckler

Let Charlie Weis finish out his contract. If he is dissatisfied perhaps he will resign. All of this BS talk of firing the coach will do nothing for the team sprit. It is my assertion that this kind of conversation is more worthless than a 3 dollar bill.

Golden parachutes are a perfect example of reckless and irresponsible spending.

In the future hire coaches on two year contracts minus golden parachutes.

Perhaps none of this is the fault of Charlie Weis…..

As one commenter has stated we in Lawrence have watched the local big spenders accomplish nothing for KU football through the flaunting of their wealth. While at the same time removing themselves from the fans by way of "Skybox Seating". Local arrogance is getting KU football nowhere.

Had KU basketball development been left to the local elite it too would be in the tank !!!

Don't blame the coaches. It goes deeper obviously. Instead go to watch a football game and enjoy yourselves . Life will go on.

8 years, 2 months ago

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