Tom Keegan: A comparison of KU's 98 games under Mangino to the 98 since

Kansas Quarterback Todd Reesing (5) chats with coach Mark Mangino after scoring against Iowa State. Mangino praised his quarterback Monday, saying Reesing deserves to be in the conversation for the Heisman Trophy.

It took the 98th game of the post-Mark Mangino era for something to happen to make an awakening from a prolonged slump for the Kansas football program feel even possible.

Freshman Pooka Williams Jr., the speedy running back from Louisiana, made such an amazing debut Saturday in Mount Pleasant, Mich., that it’s easy to see a fan base that had tuned out to the tune of a Week 1 crowd count of 24,305 tune back in for Saturday’s 11 a.m. kickoff vs. Rutgers at David Booth Kansas Memorial Stadium.

Might 40,000 show up? Why not? The Williams Fund offered via email a buy-one, get-one-free special to its members. Smart timing. Market when you have something to market.

It’s time for the excitement to return to the stadium that was lit up by Todd Reesing, whose name will go up on the Ring of Honor during a break in the action Saturday.

It’s interesting that it took 98 games for hope to return, because that’s the exact number of games Mark Mangino coached at Kansas.

It makes for a natural time to compare the 98 games under Mangino to the 98 since.

Overall record

Mangino: 50-48

Successors: 16-82

Big 12 record

Mangino: 23-41

Successors: 4-67*

*Turner Gill, Charlie Weis, interim head coach Clint Bowen, and David Beaty share the lead for most Big 12 victories, post-Mangino, with one.

FBS record

Mangino: 42-47

Successors: 10-79

Bowl record

Mangino: 3-1

Successors: 0-0

Points for

Mangino: 2,606

Successors: 1,794

Points against

Mangino: 2,130

Successors: 3,707

Average score

Mangino: 29-27

Successors: 18-38

Home attendance 50,000-plus

Mangino: 14 games

Successors: 0

Losses by 40 or more

Mangino: 4

Successors: 21

Most wins in a season

Mangino: 12

Successors: 3

Record vs. Kansas State

Mangino: 4-4

Successors: 0-8

Mangino built a winner by signing largely two-star high school recruits that the staff identified as tough individuals who could develop in the weight room and in demanding practices to gain ground on more talented athletes recruited by other Big 12 schools.

Gill recruited mostly high school players, but so many of them didn’t cut it academically or were dismissed for disciplinary reasons by Weis, a combination that started the scholarship number problems that Beaty didn’t have the patience to straighten out by resisting the temptation to recruit transfers. Complicating matters further, he overused the rule that allows schools to exceed the yearly limit of 25 scholarships by counting the scholarships of the extra players toward the next year’s class. Such recruits unofficially are known as blue shirts and technically can’t be recruited to a school, but can be given scholarships when they show up.

Mangino took two teams to bowl games before Reesing arrived and Reesing carried the offense to record-breaking, going 25-6 in his first 31 starts.

Can Williams be the program elevator from the running back position that Reesing was running the offense?

Both men will be in the same place Saturday, two good reasons to show up for the game and possibly be part of KU’s first crowd of 40,000 since the 2013 season, and what could result in KU’s first winning streak since the first two games of the 2011 season.

Comments

Dane Pratt

I miss the fat jokes.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

['']

Best line/dig: "*Turner Gill, Charlie Weis, interim head coach Clint Bowen, and David Beaty share the lead for most Big 12 victories, post-Mangino, with one." Bhhhaaahahahahaha!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Lawrence McGlinn

Interesting article with some historical perspective. I like. I also like the sarcastic comment, "*Turner Gill, Charlie Weis, interim head coach Clint Bowen, and David Beaty share the 'lead' for most Big 12 victories, post-Mangino, with one." Kind of like being the lead singer for the band on the Titanic. 98 games, wow!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Dyrk Dugan

If you discard 2002, Mangino went 16-12 vs what I consider the peer schools we have to compete against in recruiting; schools close to us geographically, and the same core academics. Back then, it was NU, KSU, ISU and MU. Now it’s ISU, KSU and we’ll throw in Okie St. 16-12; is it any wonder we won three bowl games including a BCS bowl? We competed and beat our peer schools; this is the most important milestone for any coach to hit; are you competing against and regularly beating your peer schools? It’s so important for fan buzz, attendance and recruiting. What’s our record against these teams since MM? 1-24. 7 year stretch of 16-12; now an 8 year stretch of 1-24. A big step this year would be to get that 2nd win; it’s time to start getting these wins again.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Jacob Zutterman

I’m curious as to why you stopped your interim head coaching articles after the win last Saturday?

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Doug Cramer

Lol - was wondering the same thing.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Edward Daub

Keegan Kancelled the KU Interim Koach Kountdown?

Fat Chance! If KU Loses to Rutgers, Tom will 5,4,3,2,1!

Rating Associate Head Coach Tony Hull at #6 also Raised Eyebrows.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Jacob Zutterman

This is a guarantee

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Dale Rogers

" that Beaty didn’t have the patience to straighten out by resisting the temptation "
Kind of tough to stick to such a long-range plan when fans, and especially media, are screaming for your head before you have the full five-years you said, up front, would be needed. Keegan, you are part of the problem. I'm not saying Beaty would have been successful, just that people like Keegan don't help by constantly inflaming the fan base.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Brian Skelly

It's hard to say that Keegan has been "inflaming" the fan base. Considering the apathy around here, any heat generated is a positive.

By the way, the incompetence and failure of a decade of losing -- and historical losing -- is what will irritate fans, not local scribes.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Doug Cramer

Bring Mangino Back !

Please !

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Len Shaffer

Shut the hell up !

Please !

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

No I think it's a great idea. I wouldn't bring him back as head coach necessarily. But Mark Mangino has proven he's willing to be an assistant coach in the Big 12. MM is known for an edge that these kids need. Maybe it gives him some vindication, being asked back and celebrated, even if in a more limited role. Maybe it restores some comfort to donors who thought he should never have been gotten rid of, and realize what a dismal failure football has been since his departure. Maybe Mangino can employ the same formula in scouting recruits and developing them once they're here. Imagine a line up where Les Miles is head coach, and you have Mangino and Tony Hull on your staff, plus whoever Miles wants to bring on board. But the trio would bring instant credibility back to Kansas football. And not just "believability", but *practical* progress would be made. Imagine Mark Mangino scouting, Tony Hull recruiting, then you bring Les Miles for the closer--a familiar name and face into a recruits living room--a kid commits, and Mangino develops. Where has any air escaped this reasoning?

I think the reason football at Kansas is in the shape that it's in is because very few people can think outside of the box. We are all struggling to find answers to fix football when there are some easy things that could be done to help us get there. Having Mangino back at Kansas would be a huge positive. Once people get an idea in their heads--even BAD ideas, like MM did anything to warrant being ousted--they're stuck in quick sand and their ability to think any differently becomes extremely limited. It's like we *want* to be good in football, but we put these restrictions on our thinking that keep us from getting there.

When you're as bad as Kansas has been in football, you can't afford the luxury of taking good ideas off the table.

You just can't.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Doug Cramer

Joe - I think the only way it works is if Mangino is hired as the head coach.

His attention to detail, and ability to instill discipline in his players and team is what gives us the formula to get back to 2007.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

His attention to detail and ability to instill discipline in players is not sacrificed as an assistant. Trust me, I think MM as head coach would be a reasonable choice. But at this point, there are enough people who are stuck in patterns of thinking that would make that practically impossible. They'll give you every reason in the book. So the compromise position is one that is more sellable, to coin a word: bring whatever great attributes MM has with him back to Kansas. Create a coaching lineup that you can have confidence in. Put to rest any objections about his return by giving him a position where someone else has oversight and control, and still get the best attributes he has to offer.

I'm saying this with great respect. You and I both beat the drum together for his return at head coach before. For several years, in fact. We both still feel it would be a good idea. However at this point, we differ apparently on whether it would work *as a practical matter.* I don't see it happening. And I think we have to--again--think outside of the box and consider ways that Mangino could return.

You don't need a controversy while you're trying to rebuild. I don't think you can do it if you can't get 100% of the boosters on board. You need recruits to know their coming into a stable situation. You need the contingent of fans who oppose Mangino to have their bad feelings marginalized, so they will buy tickets and come to games so your program can be profitable.

On paper, MM as head coach is an excellent idea. In reality there would be too much opposition.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Stephen Simmons

How sad is it that we're now longing for the days of Mangino? With the exception of 2007, he was at best a mediocre coach on the field, and a total dumpster fire off it.

Playing roughly .500 ball when you pad your preseason with cupcakes isn't success. Looking wistfully back at the Mangino era is like a battered spouse looking back at the good times between beatings. Selective memory at its best.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Jonathan Allison

Mark Mangino may have been an OC before he came to Kansas, but his hallmark at Kansas right up until he put Todd Reesing onto the field was solid defense. You may not remember those years because the Tangerine Bowl and Fort Worth Bowl didn't interest you, but Kansas had some stellar defenses. They were among the top teams in the nation in several defensive categories including run defense. Those seasons before the magical run in 2007 we played against the top teams in the conference and too many times lost by single possessions because we didn't have the offensive personnel to get the job done. Adam Barmann never quite could get the job done. Jon Cornish almost carried the team to greatness on multiple occasions. I was in the stands in 04, 05, and 06 and remember way too many times watching a promising lead slip away in the 4th quarter against TTU, OSU, Texas, etc. We had Vince Young and Texas on the ropes in 2004. We played Adrian Peterson and OU within a couple possessions at Arrowhead in 05, but couldn't find the end zone. In 06 and 07 the schedule smiled on us and we didn't face OU and UT or TTU when they were peaking. In 06 we went 6-6 and didn't play a bowl game, though we took one possession losses against OSU, TAM, Nebraska, and Baylor. A good offense in 06 and 11-1. A good Offense in 05 and we're a 10-2 team. We had 11-1 potential written all over us going into 2007 and Reesing and Co made the difference. But we were on the verge of it in 2004. All we needed was a QB who could didn't fumble every time he got within 10 years of the end zone.

So even though the results were roughly .500 ball, to say that Mangino was a mediocre coach at Kansas is totally unfair.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Robert Brown

Interesting perspective. I remember the pre-Reesing days for being competitive with the realistic hope that we could beat any team we played. I also remember many disappointing 4th quarter losses where we couldn’t get a defensive stop or couldn’t get a critical first down when we needed it late in the game. There was always hope which has been lacking the last few years.

It is interesting how we lost the defensive mentality in 2008 and 2009. If we had just an average defense in 2008 and 2009, we could have won two divisional titles.

I do agree that the overall record is padded with some cupcakes. We played four non conference games. Today’s current scheduling set-up would have been much tougher. During the peak years, NU, CU, KSU and ISU were all down and always on the schedule.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Dane Pratt

@ Stephen
But we are a mediocre football program at best. Our all time win-loss record is below .500. I'm not advocating for his return but I have to give the man his due. He stopped the most embarrassing losing streak in college football by defeating Nebraska and he has an Orange Bowl win. No other KU coach can make those claims.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Selective memory Stephen? In the 125+ years of Kansas football, there have been 38 coaches, only 6 of which have coached more than one season AND achieved a winning percentage above .500. Mark Mangino is one of them.

In fact, you have to go back to 1904 to witness the *only* coach who has more career wins than Mangino at Kansas. Albert Kennedy beats Mangino by 2 wins.

Mark has won the Big 12 Coach of the Year Award, the Walter Camp Coach of the Year, the AP National Coach of the Year, the Eddie Robinson Coach of the Year Award, The Home Depot Coach of the Year Award, the Sporting News College Football Coach of the Year, Woody Hayes Trophy, the George Munger Award, the AFCA Coach of the Year, and the Paul "Bear" Bryant Award all for his coaching at Kansas.

Mark has given Kansas the only major bowl victory in its entire history.

Compare these facts with your assertions of mediocrity on the field and selective memory, and you can see something wrong. Lew Perkins thinking mirrored your own, and you can see how that worked out. No one is saying Mangino's tactics weren't over the top. But they did not deserve the witch hunt that led to his resignation under threat of firing, and there's no way to justify that they did. He had a temper, yes. I hope the next coach we hire has a temper. You can see how nice guys/boy scouts have been working out at head coach lately...

Not good.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

David Kemp

On top of that nine of the 10 largest crowds in KU fb history occurred during the Mangino era!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Micky Baker

There aren't any people who were alive 125 years ago, so I don't remember that far back. I get your point though, it's easy to research the history. Siri might not be the way to do the research though.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

How about your comment under the other article. Doubling down? Just curious if your motivation is simply to torpedo rather than to offer anything constructive.

1 week ago

Report

Dane Pratt

Albert bests Mangino by only two wins but in seven seasons only lost 9 and tied 4 times. He was 4-1-2 against Mizoo, 3-2 against Nebraska and 7-0 against Oklahoma. Also had a win against Notre Dame.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

Well if your point is to suggest that Albert did better at Kansas than Mangino, no one would dispute that. The point is not to question who is number 1, but to show that Mangino only has competition with one other coach for the best at Kansas.

1 week ago

Report

Dane Pratt

Not the point I was making. Before yesterday I didn't know who Albert Kennedy was only to learn that he was 52-9-4 and routinely beating the likes of OU and NU. Seems like quite the anomaly for a KU football coach. If only KU had the foresight to follow the groundwork he laid.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

We agree there, Dane.

I would add, though, that discipline--even hard discipline--was much more widely accepted in the great bygone era of early football. It's been pu$$ified now, and you can't use the same motivational tactics.

We agree on more than is apparent, I think. Those early OU, NU and Missouri teams were outstanding. Powerhouses as much in their own time as they are today. And Kansas beat them regularly. It would be nice to get whatever formula worked for those guys and repeat it here. I imagine there was more mental preparation through discipline than what is allowed today, though; and my worry is that KU is going to attempt to hire another boy scout who won't scream at his players.

To dig out of this hole, Kansas has to be more mentally tough than its opponents. Practices should be tougher than games.

1 week ago

Report

Dane Pratt

Agreed

6 days, 18 hours ago

Report

Michael Leiker

What? Were you paying any attention in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008? Those were some salty teams considering where they came from in 2002. Those defenses!! People who try to encapsulate the Mangino era into 2007 could not have been paying attention back then.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Marcus Balzer

If you remove the magical 2007 season Mangino had 38 total wins from 2002-09. Again, removing the 2007 season he had 16 wins in the conference.
At the time that was considered average or below and you combine that with the "alleged" mistreatment of his players he was fired. What took place after of course KU fans would want those type of average years back because anything is better than what has taken place since Mangino left.
I am NOT advocating to bring Mangino back. That is not the right move. If KU wins on Saturday and IF they can look competitive throughout the Big 12 (the most telling stat Keegs posted was losses by 40 pts+ during and after) then you evaluate Beaty at the end of the year and move forward with the best option for the program.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Doug Cramer

So you’re advocating Beaty over Mangino.

This is why we suck.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Marcus Balzer

I'm not sure what part of that you took for advocating Beaty over Mangino. I just said keep everything in context and figure out what is the best move for KU Football moving forward.
As things stand unless something changes dramatically neither Mangino or Beaty, IMO are the best option for KU Football moving forward.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Doug, when you step on the gas and put words in peoples' mouths, you forfeit any good points you might otherwise have because people won't take your perspective seriously. I disagree with Marcus, too. But you can't put words in the man's mouth.

A better response to Marcus, I feel, would be to correct that Mangino was not in fact fired, acknowledge the temper but note that the response was disproportional and not in line with what other coaches endured for even more serious offenses, that Beaty has had his time at Kansas and even two games into year four he's not shown any improvement, and that if Marcus is willing to isolate a period where he thinks Mangino was not very successful, that Mangino beats Beaty in a comparison by any metric you can choose, meaning the evaluation period for Beaty from a fan's perspective (which his evaluation of Mangino also derives from) has come and gone. The only thing that could counter this is that Beaty produces 5 wins and he won't. End of story.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

David Kemp

Wow. Tough considering KU hasn’t had a coach with above 500 record since the 40s.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Why do people always start with "If you remove the 2007 season..."?

I mean, was the 2007 team *not* something Mangino built? I mean we could skew the results by also omitting his *worst* season, if that's the case. In fact, it's more apropos to omit his worst season, which was his *first*, because he inherited a program that had another coach's players and philosophy stamped on it. So watch how this goes:

*"If you omit Mangino's worst season, he is 48-38, with 4 bowl appearances and 3 bowl wins in 7 seasons."*

Omitting seasons works out in Mangino's favor, yo!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

David Kemp

Yes and if you take out 2000 season Stoops never wins a national championship.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Craig Carson

@Marcus Balzer...you cant just discredit that 2007 season..Mangino did build that team up..give the man some credit

1 week ago

Report

Steven Haag

Yes Doug. I would advocate my son over Mangino. This season will play out. Beaty will be fired or retained. We have a new AD who has hired someone to oversee football as well. This is not a microwave popcorn fix......it’s more of a roast in the crockpot fix. It’s going to take a while. That’s why he’s the new AD and you are just a whiny fan. I believe we owe it to these Seniors to be positive or say NOTHING at all. They have invested 4 or 5 years of their life. Don’t try and tell me that you’ve done the same. Beaty is probably gone, we won’t have the Many millions a year to throw at a awesome coach(who most likely wouldn’t take the job anyway). We will keep casting lots on someone who shows potential in recruiting or coaching, cross our fingers and then wait and see how many losses they can absorb before people like you start screaming for their heads and wish that we had Mangino back. SMH

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Robert Brock

Jeff Long is not the gullible rube that Sheahon Zenger was. He is going to select a good-quality coach who will turn this nightmare around.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Hear, hear!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Dane Pratt

As good as Mangino was, there is a reason why he is unemployed.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Not a *good* reason..

Clearly you have given Mangino credit for his good qualities. Respect for that. But you can't name a coach of Mangino's era that had the public frenzy that surrounded him given the level of offenses. In fact, many other institutions can be found who actually endorsed or did not seek firing for their coaches who had much bigger scandals.

I say this respectfully. This line about "there's a reason Mangino is not here" is based on some pretty bad logic. I endured worse in high school football and in basic training at younger ages than Mangino's kids did. Worse! At younger ages!

You need a coach with fire in his belly. Mangino had it. It spilled over into areas where it shouldn't have, yes. But there are ways to correct that other than what happened here.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Dane Pratt

Seems logical to hire the best coach we’ve had in over a century since he is available but he comes with a risk, one that the university should not take. And in fairness to Mark, his transgressions do not rise to the level of an Art Briles. Unfortunately Mark has some anger management issues and having him on the sidelines is an incident waiting to happen. And it’s not as if he wasn’t given a second chance. The parking ticket incidents and the LHS incident all preceded the player abuse allegations. If I had any measure of confidence in his ability to reform his lack of people skills I would lobby for his employment at KU.

1 week ago

Report

Aaron Paisley

Let me ask you this Joe. Of the three coaches who were fired for similar reasons at that time, Mangino, Leach, and Leavitt, why was Mangino the only one who never returned to a decent coaching position? Jim Leavitt was out for a year, then went to the NFL. Mike Leach was gone for two years and got the job at Wazzou. Mangino was out for 3 years and returned at Youngstown St.

Even before the allegations against Mangino, there's a reason why nobody was beating the door down to take him from Kansas. Mangino was not a disciplinarian, he was a miserable person who took his frustration out on everyone around him including secretaries, high school refs, campus police.

Bringing Mangino back isn't worth the baggage he brings for someone who had one great season and struggled to get to bowl eligibility the rest of the time.

1 week ago

Report

Len Shaffer

Thank you, Aaron! You put it a lot better than I have.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

Mark Mangino's return to coaching was delayed by his wife's battle with breast cancer. The time you cite that he spent out reflects that fact. As for why others didn't come calling I can give you at least two reasonable answers. One, Mark Mangino's buyout could have been as high as 6.6 million (they settled at 3 and change), but this was not known by other schools until his resignation was complete. Leach got 1.6 and Leavitt got 2 million plus a payment of thanks for his services. Secondly, you are assuming no one came calling after Mangino. You'll remember that the investigation happened during the course of the season. When that's the case, other schools must ask permission from the AD to talk to the head coach. Lew was certainly not in a disposition to grant access. But again you assume no other schools showed interest, when in fact these kinds of negotiations always happened behind the scenes. Furthermore, if "being a terrible human being" is the reason why Mangino didn't get invited back to a coaching position sooner (it wasn't, see above), then the burden of proof is on you to explain why the men you cite weren't regarded in the same way. Leach had a guy locked in a shed not once, but twice--once for three hours. Because he *thought* he was faking a concussion. It would be naive to think that a person being capable of that kind of action did not do other things. On the contrary, he got busted because the boys parents complained. Many parents of college athletes are likely to be quiet in a lot of situations where mistreatment is alleged, but this was clearly over the top. Leavitt grabbed on his players, too. And he lied about it in one case and even actively obstructed the investigation. As for why Youngstown State, well...after a rough three years perhaps Mangino wanted to go someplace familiar to ease back into it. He said as much in an interview, where he felt it was like a homecoming. Youngstown State has been a hotbed for a lot of great coaches, Jim Tressels, the Stoops, Mangino himself, Mark Dantonio, and others. Bo Pelini even returned to coach at Youngstown State after he left Nebraska, and he wasn't embroiled in a scandal at all, so it's clear YSU is not the scrap heap for terrible former D1 coaches and assistants. Suffice to say that the derision of Youngstown is overblown. And again, Mark had great connections and memories with the University and was not ready to re-enter coaching until he did (which are his words, not mine). Finally you have situations where angry coaches who are "terrible humans" get hired all the time. Bobby Knight? Bob Huggins? Jim Harbaugh? Nick Saban? Mike Stoops? Steve Spurrier? The list goes on.

1 week ago

Report

Aaron Paisley

Mangino's settlement isn't why his next job was an assistant coach at a lower level school. It's also not why he was fired mid-season at ISU. It's because he burns bridges because he can't get along people. The Arist Wroght situation isn't why Mangino was fired. Mangino was fired because he was an a-hole to everyone he worked with including his boss and treated those in lower positions like crap. When you go through life treating people the way Mangino did, they're going to look for any reason to fire Mangino.

Perkins had to be convinced after the 2006 season to bring Mangino back in 2007. You're reasoning on tge buyout is flawed as well. Perkins was so desperate to get rid of Mangino that he probably would've waived or significantly reduced the buyout to be rid of Mangino. Why weren't teams lining up to take Mangino from Kansas after 2007 even knowing that they could've negotiated a much lower buyout because Perkins and Mangino's dislike of each other wasn't a secret even in 2007/8 before the Arist Wright situation happened and when Mangino's stock should've been at its peak. That should tell how most AD's felt about Mangino's character that even with him making Kansas competitive, nobody wanted him.

Mangino was a terrible person and brought everything on himself at the end of his tenure.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

I assume you concede the point about the delay in the length of time to return to coaching since you didn't address it. You again deride YSU. Your freedom. It's good enough for a lot of top-notch coaches, though, so I stand on the points that I've made there. Push. But outside of that your response supposes that I think Mangino was lined up to win a citizenship award. He wasn't, and that's a point that doesn't have to be made. My contention is that being an a$$hole doesn't necessarily warrant an investigation, and it *certainly* didn't in Mangino's case. If it did you better cast a wider net because there are literally tons of coaches who fit the "a$$hole" description. The very idea! Your comparison of Leach and Leavitt to the Mangino situation misses the mark badly, because reading between the lines it's clear that you think they were more upstanding than our dearly departed former coach (which is why they got jobs elsewhere, in a shorter amount of time, etc.), and yet there was *nothing* Mangino did on par with locking a guy in a shed multiple times for hours. I interpret your comments through the lens of that error. Again, I'm not saying Mangino was a saint. But you're viewing his mistakes in a vacuum when more than that needs to be considered. And let's not forget that Lew Perkins, the guy who you assume had the moral integrity to judge Mangino, was guilty of moral turpitude himself while at Kansas. Pot calling a kettle black as it were. If you measure with a rubber ruler then be careful about trusting the reading. The "Arist Wright" situation is a non-situation, as even you seem to suggest yourself. Crybaby stuff, and yet that's a part of what went came out as part of the scope of the investigation. You say it wasn't about Arist Wright, but Perkins said differently. And arguing with a parking attendant? So the hell WHAT! People use choice words in forums such as this one and *don't get banned from the comments section, and yet you want a successful D1 coach at a Power 5 conference school to be fired over that kind of stuff!* This is the kind of thinking that leaves people slack-jawed at these opinions.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

We live in times now where people have lost the ability to tolerate anything negative, which is a huge part of the problem. This doesn't excuse Mangino, but it certainly IS a part of the explanation about why things happened the way they did. The biggest beef I have with Mark is the comment to the kid about sending him back to the hood to be shot (his brother was killed). That's some a$$hole $hit to do, and the ONLY thing that fits the description of the kind of activity that needs to be looked into from everything that we know about what prompted the investigation. The only thing. The corrective action for that should have been to have Mark issue a public apology to the kid and his family, pay a fine and perhaps perform some service in relation to inner city youth. I don't care what Perkins' reasons were. They were good enough reasons to take action with Mark, I grant you. They were good enough reasons to bring him in and have talks about consequences. No problem there. But good enough to consider firing?

Come on dude...

1 week ago

Report

Aaron Paisley

I have no issues with a coach being a hard ass, Bill Self is a hard ass. There are many other football coaches who are hard asses, but they don't go around treating everyone around them like garbage they way Mangino did. The stories of Mangino verbally abusing a campus parking officer is well known as is Mangino getting kicked out of his son's HS game for berating a ref in that game. Those are the two most well known stories and I've heard plenty of others about Mangino verbally abusing others from people who worked in the athletic office the time.

There's a reason why there weren't any schools offering Mangino after the 2007 or 2008 seasons. There's a reason why the team leaders in 2009 weren't publicly defending Mangino and calling out Arist Wright for being soft. There's a reason why Mangino's return to coaching came at an FCS school known for launching coaching careers, not resurrecting them. There's a reason he was fired midseason at ISU in 2016. There's a reason why he's still unemployed today.

You can be a hard ass and still care about your players and treat those around you with respect. Mangino didn't do those things and it's why he's currently unemployed while Mike Leach has Washington St. in a good place and why Jim Leavitt has been the defensive coordinator at Oregon the past 3 years. Thise guys were hard asses who crossed a line like Mangino did, they just didn't burn bridges everywhere they went like Mangino did.

6 days, 22 hours ago

Report

Joe Ross

I'm content to let you have the last word on this one. I don't see any of what Mangino did as a fireable offense. You do. We're not going to convince one another. Happy to answer this last comment with objections, but I sense that we are entrenched. Let me know...

6 days, 19 hours ago

Report

Joe Ross

A good friend of mine is an ex-NFL (Saints, Browns, Lions, and Falcons) and ex-college coach (Ohio State, Wisconsin, University of Southern California, UCLA, and Southern Methodist University) by the name of Bob Palcic. We still get together every Wednesday for drinks. Urban Meyer's first stint in coaching as a GA saw him assigned to Bob. His feeling is that oftentimes these witch hunts always take an element of truth and blow it out of proportion. Urban didn't hit anyone. And Zach Smith's grandfather gave Urban his first job. You can imagine the stresses that Meyer was feeling. Mark was not a boy scout. That much we know. But though sometimes the punishment fits the crime, that's clearly not what happened at Kansas. Arist Wright complained that Mark poked him in the chest.

He was wearing pads.

"That's a turrible human being. Turrible, turrible, turrible."

1 week ago

Report

Jeff Coffman

1) Beaty is still on borrowed time, don't forget he lost to a FBS school already this year.

2) Mangino isn't going to be the coach that Long selects. Long has ties to more established current coaches. Mangino doesn't have the ties to build a coaching staff like he did when he was hired.

3) One of Beaty's biggest issues is he hodge podged a coaching staff and each year he has turnover that he can't replace with better personnel.

4) My guess is that Perry will be the interim coach, unless if a Head Coach is named (unlikely)

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Joe Ross

Jeff...*FCS school. We all know what you meant though.

While I wouldn't venture a guess myself re: an interim coach, agree with the rest of what you say 100%.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

['']

Perry???? What has he done to show competence. Like Beaty, he was brought in because of his so called amazing TX recruiting prowess and coaching abilities. He has now been moved to Special Teams and we have landed just a handful of recruits from the vaunted TX High Schools. Pfffffttt!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Lawrence McGlinn

Does anyone remember how Mangino lost seven in a row at the end of 2009? We weren't exactly on an upswing. It felt like he was losing the team. He caught lightning in a bottle for a couple of years. Ranting and raving and stomping do not inspire discipline. Considering bringing back Mangino is really not thinking out of the box.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

David Kemp

Not fair. Bad call cost us CU game then Reesing was hurt the entire rest of the season with groin. Furthermore offense was still productive while Bowen’s defenses were cr-p

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Chris DeWeese

Coincidentally, those losses occurred right after allegations surfaced that Mangino was mistreating players. I think part of the reason for that losing streak was because the team lost focus. A pretty severe distraction.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Michael Maris

In all fairness, Lawrence, do you remember how a % of the team and Former Athletic Director turned on Mangino (as well)? It takes a full team and coaching staff bought into a system for it all to work out. So, if the AD and a % of your team has turned on their coach, that's a game plan for a disastrous 7 game losing streak . Not that I'm advocating for a return of Mangino. I'm just stating that EVERY facet of the team needs to be bought into the Team Game plan.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Brad Watson

Thanks Tom...very good stuff...nice to see those comparisons....run Mangino out for calling out some snowflakes and then piling on with irrelevant stuff...essentially just .a debris ball to finish him off...Mangino grew on me...wasn't a big fan early on...but he won me over...he was tough and much smarter than I thought...I started liking him after the Texas game when he called out the refs.I saw a winner....and after that...we started winning.......since his ouster.....we have been suffering from the curse from railroading a good person out of their job....bad karma...in my opinion.......but now on a much more positive note....lets all get out and support the kids against Rutgers on Saturday....we have a great chance of winning this one.....with some crowd support...we can do it!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Bryson Stricker

great thread.

KU will spend more than $3M/yr on their next head coach. If you don't know that it's because you're part of the problem and not a WEF donor :). (only takes $50/yr)

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Doug Fogleman

I have been to every home game since 2006. The attendance must go off tickets sold, not people in the stands. I'm guessing that there was about 8000 people there for the Nicholl's State game.

Here is a picture from my seat looking north. South bleachers were no better.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

David Kemp

Don’t think this is going unnoticed by Long. 40k more fans equates to money enough to pay a real coach!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Tracey Graham

Has Todd Reesing ever been offered a coaching job at KU? As far as I know, he doesn't have any experience, so he couldn't be the head coach, but how about making him the QB coach? Seems to me as smart as he was reported to be (Rhodes Scholar candidate), and with as much success as he had as a player, he should be able to teach younger guys some things about playing the position.

And instead of bringing back Mangino, why not try and look for a younger coach who has had some success either as an assistant on a Power 5 team or as a head coach at a non-Power 5 school who has some of the same positive attributes that Mangino did?

Rutgers is probably the worst team in the Big Ten, so this week's game will give us more of an idea about whether last week was a complete fluke or a sign that things might be starting to get a little better.

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

['']

Rhodes scholar??? You are joking right??

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Tracey Graham

Todd Reesing was named to the Big 12's First Team All-Academic team THREE times. And during his senior year I remember seeing articles talking about his possible candidacy for a Rhodes Scholarship.

"Reesing, a senior quarterback, was named to the first team for the third time, becoming the ninth Jayhawk in history to earn first-team academic all-conference honors three times."

https://kuathletics.com/news/2009/11/...

Why would I be kidding? There are athletes who have been Rhodes Scholars, you know.

1 week ago

Report

Titus Canby

Bring back Fielding Yost!

1 week, 1 day ago

Report

Randy Bombardier

You know he sure had competitive teams. Look how many games were competitive in 2006.

1 week ago

Report

Brad Belt

yeah but how many feelings did he hurt?!?

1 week ago

Report

Micky Baker

There were some issues that led to Mangino's firing, and I have stated this before. If Gray-Little was not Chancellor, Mangino may not have been fired. He would have been severely disciplined, at least by the precedents set in college football. However, that does not mean he would still be here today. When the AD left because of Gray-Little, who had virtually no experience at the time as a Chancellor, we lost the AD and he left us with Turner Gill. He probably wasn't the best coach available that wanted the job either but it didn't end well. Three years later, he was fired, then came Charlie Weis, and then he was fired. Both of those hires were mistakes. I understand that many fans are frustrated, I am too, but I'm not going to jump ship with Beaty just yet because I think he inherited worse conditions than Glen Mason did and a lot of the players that experienced the worst times in the past 20 years for KU football, or most of them, are not here anymore. Sometimes, in order to change the culture, you have to change the player personnel. It isn't that the previous players didn't give an effort, it's that they went from one coach to another, and in some cases, some were in their last year in Beaty's first season. They went from OC to OC, so they were constantly asked to learn this, but change it again next year, the year after, and the year after. As a player, that would tick me off. It's one thing to make changes, but a complete overhaul every year just didn't cut it. Mangino didn't overhaul every year but the fans weren't as rabid as some of them are now, along with some in the press in Lawrence. So, here's the lesson. Don't let the media pressure into visceral reactions that lead to wholesale changes on one side of the ball or the other. Make a plan, stick to the plan, and then recruit the players that fit the plan. This is why I don't like the recruiting rankings on Rivals. It isn't based on the specific needs for each team. It helps to get 4* guys, as long as they fill a roster spot that needs filled. I just remember all the guys we had on the 2007 team, Briscoe, McAnderson, Sharp, Fields, Wilson, etc. None of them were 4* recruits I believe, but they all played a vital role in the success of the team. I'm not leaving anyone out on purpose, just slipping a few names in there so people understand we weren't loaded with 4* recruits.

1 week ago

Report

Brian Wilson

HAAAAh!!! Micky, I was around when MM was coach and about the only reason he was fired was because he was FAT!!!!<br><br>
The puny player that couldn't take having his feelings hurt or a grab by the facemask should have been thrown out the locker room. The Cacamorphian AD and Alumni went off on Coach M because he wouldn't kiss their *** and be their best club buddy. They were acting like childish arrogant b-tards that had to have it their way or the highway. Coach M didn't want to have anything to do with them and just wanted to do it his way. Kissing up was not his game.<br>
<br>
Joe is spot. Heck, at age 7 my YMCA flag football coach treated me worse. Not to mention just about every coach i played under....especially my Jr HIgh coach Mr Fitzgerald. I wonder what punishment you think the precedents in college football would give him for hitting a player with a tennis racquet because my school did nothing. <br><br>
IMO, KU still owes Mangino a public apology and they should hire hiim back just because.<br><br>
But of course they won't, and they shouldn't, Mangino should laugh at the offer, it's not a good idea for many reasons, we need to be realistic and move forward.

1 week ago

Report

Micky Baker

Brian, pretty light punishments for coaches in college football for 'mistreatment' of players. Quotations are there for a reason. The bottom line is that the behavior could have been corrected without termination. But with that said, it doesn't mean Mangino would have stayed at Kansas through now or even after 2009.

1 week ago

Report

Brian Wilson

Point well made. Mangino should have be given a warning or a 1 game suspension. And you are correct, Mangino could have moved on but we will never know now.

1 week ago

Report

Matt Gauntt

After college, I lived in the Chicago area for a couple decades. It was entertaining to make fun of Bears fans because all they could every talk about was 1986. Super Bowl Suffle....The Fridge.....blah, blah, blah.

KU fans are doing the same thing with Mangino. He's been gone for 9 years........give it up. Live in the present.

1 week ago

Report

Layne Pierce

No. Mangino is not coming back. But someone like him, should be our next coach. No, I don't mean excessive abuse, but hey that's just one of his qualities. How about ability to scout 2 star players and find ones who could be developed. How about the ability to develop them.

And how about insisting on performance discipline. You do your job, or its next man up.

I mean you cannot deny the results. Cut it anyway you want. The last 98 games have been the real abuse, and we the fans, the people who buy the tickes, and bleed crimson and blue.

We are the ones who have been abused.

1 week ago

Report

Joe Ross

Someone who GETS IT!!!

1 week ago

Report

Barry Weiss

The Beaty homers need to slow their roll. He got one win. Even a win this Saturday, which would certainly be nice, does not reflect an ability to be competitive in our own league. I still think we go winless in the b-12. A loss this Saturday to the bottom feeder in the B1G will be yet another blow to an already horrible record. A win, yes, maybe there is hope something is happening. This game will tell us a lot. Go Jayhawks!

1 week ago

Report

Sam Allen

I think Todd Reesing and Anthony (Pooka) Williams, should have a long talk!

6 days, 5 hours ago

Report

Sam Allen

I think it would be a helpful if Todd (Reesing) and Anthony (Pooka) Williams, should have a long talk (discussion).

About:

Todd should talk about (His) “past” experience, (ie. WINNING “advice”) to (Pooka) Williams school of developing a winning a culture (transition) at the University of Kansas (Football).

Suggested: a private (away from other teams to avoid them to prepare for this in our game preparation) media discussion; Between A.P. Williams & Reesing.

6 days, 5 hours ago

Report